Horizontal Windlass - do I need one with a drum?

[Babylon]

Got half chain, half warp. Do I need a drum on a powered horizontal windlass, or will the gypsy be sufficient?

 

[JimC]

Most windlasses today are available with gypsies which can handle both rope and chain. Be warned though that they can be very exacting in terms of what type and size of rope is partnered with what size of chain and how the rope to chain splice is done. Using a separate drum to handle the rope isn't straightforward: the windlass will probably have a chain pipe or just a hole in the casting under the gypsy for the chain to go through on its way down into the chain locker; how are you going to get the rope coming off the drum to go down this hole? you'll probably have to tail it off the drum and flake it out on deck before poking it down the hole bit by bit - not ideal. I think most people who have rope drums on their windlasses use them for warping in shorelines etc rather than handling the anchor rode.

 

[vyv_cox]

With a horizontal windlass the rode is normally only carried on a quarter of the circumference of the gypsy. I would be a little surprised if rope could be hauled in strongly with such a small purchase.

 

[JimC]

With a horizontal windlass the rode is normally only carried on a quarter of the circumference of the gypsy. I would be a little surprised if rope could be hauled in strongly with such a small purchase.

It can work, the horizontal windlass on my last boat pulled in rope perfectly well with only 1/4 turn on the gypsy. It had to be 3 strand rope though and it was prone to chewing up the splice. The really strong pull is usually when you are breaking out the anchor and by then you will probably be gripping on the chain part of the rode.

 

[rivonia]

We have the drum on our windlass and its only use was to haul some equipment up the mast as I was allready up there on the main halyard. So it does have uses. go for it.

Peter

 

[LadyInBed]

We have the drum on our windlass and its only use was to haul some equipment up the mast as I was allready up there on the main halyard. So it does have uses. go for it.

Peter

Mine haul's me up the mast - a turn round mast winch then 3 turns round the windlass drum does a job.

 

[Rivers & creeks]

Used it lots of times to wind the rope in, our rope is attached to 10mm chain so it's a heavy lift and the drum makes it easy.

 

[Noahsdad]

They are useful. I have used them in the Med for hauling lazy lines just as i like them when stern too.

 

[David2452]

Useful pot hauler too.

 

[Babylon]

Most windlasses today are available with gypsies which can handle both rope and chain. Be warned though that they can be very exacting in terms of what type and size of rope is partnered with what size of chain and how the rope to chain splice is done. Using a separate drum to handle the rope isn't straightforward: the windlass will probably have a chain pipe or just a hole in the casting under the gypsy for the chain to go through on its way down into the chain locker; how are you going to get the rope coming off the drum to go down this hole? you'll probably have to tail it off the drum and flake it out on deck before poking it down the hole bit by bit - not ideal. I think most people who have rope drums on their windlasses use them for warping in shorelines etc rather than handling the anchor rode.

With a horizontal windlass the rode is normally only carried on a quarter of the circumference of the gypsy. I would be a little surprised if rope could be hauled in strongly with such a small purchase.

It can work, the horizontal windlass on my last boat pulled in rope perfectly well with only 1/4 turn on the gypsy. It had to be 3 strand rope though and it was prone to chewing up the splice. The really strong pull is usually when you are breaking out the anchor and by then you will probably be gripping on the chain part of the rode.

So there are several issues then in choice of powered windlass:

Horizontal windlass
Advantage: can manually drop and recover the anchor (contingency in case of power failure)
Disadvantage of gypsy only: limited 1/4-turn grip on rope (3-strand? anchorplait? which is better?), can also mullah the splice?
Disadvantage of drum on opposite side: have to flake rope then feed it laboriously down hawse-hole

Vertical windlass
Advantage: 3/4 -turn grip on rope, so can dispense with need for drum?
Advantage: if drum on top of gypsy then easier to feed rope down hawse-hole? (would this have to be handled manually with two or three turns around the drum, or is there a clear 'automatic' run?)
Disadvantage: unable to manually recover the anchor (due to 'enclosing' design of windlass)?

Is this correct or have I misunderstood something?

BTW I'm fitting 40-50m of 8mm chain to a 25lb Manson (gasp!) and want to splice on another 50m of rope.

 

[JimC]

I think you've summed up the situation. With a vertical windlass having a drum on top of the gypsy you still have a problem getting the rope part of the rode down the chain pipe or hole. There is a vertical windlass that isn't enclosed and doesn't have a chain pipe, so you can take the rode completely off the windlass, this suits people who like to lower their anchor by hand and "feel" it bite. This is the South Pacific Pro CV1000, it has a combined rope/chain gypsy for 8mm chain and 12-14mm rope, which has to be 3 strand according to the manufacturers though I have heard of people using 8 plait without problems. 8 plait is to be preferred as it is much less prone to tangles and settles down more compactly in the locker than does 3 strand. 14 mm rope is a good match for 8 mm chain. The Pro CV1000 can be mounted hrizontally as well as vertically and looks like a versatile piece of kit, link here http://here, user comments here http://co32bb.org/windlass_topic204.html 3 posts into the thread.

For a horizontal widlass with a rope drum on the same side as the gypsy see here http://www.ifloat.biz/products/windlass-horizontal-quick-genius-ultra-1000d-fsg1000d008a00-39158 the gypsy can also handle rope but it has to be 3 strand.

I've heard good opinions of the Lewmar horizontal windlasses http://www.lewmar.com/products.asp?id=8329, they aren't available with a rope drum but the rope/chain gypsy is reputed to be one of the better ones. Unusually it requires the rope to be 16 mm if using 8 plait but 14 mm OK if using 3 strand.

Choosing a windlass for use with a mixed rode is a bit of a minefield. Do your research carefully.

 

[vyv_cox]

How often are you going to be needing to use the rope? With 50 metres of chain I never needed more until in the eastern Med, cruising in areas with big tidal ranges. Why not have a short 'bitter end' tied to the chain, then shackle your rope onto the chain on the few occasions that it is needed. You should then be able to haul the rope in by hand or with a drum, then feed the chain back through the gypsy.

 

[Babylon]

Guys

Thanks for your input - I've learnt a lot more about this little corner of the nautical clobber world!

 

[Tranona]

Just to add a little bit more. The choice horizontal/vertical often depends on the boat - a vertical needs more space under the deck but is less obtrusive above deck, useful on a smaller boat. However a small boat often lacks the underdeck space so a horizontal is the better choice. 3 strand is usually fine, but unlikely to need rope out often if you have 50m chain. Splice the rope into the chain rather than a backsplice and it will run over the gypsy OK. Wear not really a worry because the number of times you have rope out is small. If you regularly need more then better to have more chain.

 

[PITCAIRN]

Mine haul's me up the mast - a turn round mast winch then 3 turns round the windlass drum does a job.

This is really dangerous, strongly suggest you do NOT use the windlass to haul you up mast. The problem arises if your on/off switch sticks (corrosion, Murphys Law etc) in the 'on' position, you will be pulled through the rigging/masthead sheeves long before you or crew can save you, broken bones and blood everywhere.