Hoisting Mainsail with Lazy Jacks

[Poignard]

Down wind we never turn into the wind to reef. Going up wind you just ease the main until it's luffing. Lazyjacks never caused a problem.

That's very interesting. A few questions:
What sort of mainsail have you got?
Do you have full length battens, short battens, or none?

 

[Daydream believer]

Much of the problem is the way the lazy jacks are rigged. They need to be set with the angle between the end of the boom & the point where they meet the mast such that they are NOT a straight line
If the lines are set so that there is a fair ange the sail will come out of the jacks fairly quickly & not snag. If one thinks about it the lazy jacks are only needed for the last bit of the sail drop to guide it into the bag.
My mainsail has been cut such that the battens do not extend beyond the leech. I discussed that with the sail maker & made that part of my spec. So my leech does not snag anyway.
On my first mainsail it did snag so I just let the boom out enough & luffed the boat a bit. I put one hand on the boom to hold it for a second & the sail would flip inside the jacks.

Comments about moving the lines forward etc are due to incorrect setting. Rubbing the sail on the line is a non event as there is virtually no wear- show me a sail that has suffered unless it is 25 years old. In which case it should have been binned years ago anyway. There should be no need to adjust the lazy jacks for tension on backstay or vang unless wrongly set up.

 

[Daydream believer]

What would they do if the engine was out of action?

Never happened in almost 5000 hours & 18 years of running. Amazing how well they operate if one looks after them properly.

 

[Poignard]

Halyards, reefing lines, topping lift, and lazy-jacks on my boat are all at the mast so slackening the lazy-jacks and pulling them forward is a moment's work.

 

[geem]

That's very interesting. A few questions:
What sort of mainsail have you got?
Do you have full length battens, short battens, or none?

Fully battened vectran mainsail on cars. No topping lift. All done on a mechanical kicker.
Reefing at the mast so zero friction.
We haul the mainsail down using the outer reefing lines first on the reefing winch then a line on the front reefing point. Hauling it down at the rear places the sail in the stackpack. Works fine in +30kts It's more physical effort due to pressure in the sail but far better than turning engine on and pointing into the wind and waves to reef. Reefing down wind it safer as you have the benefit of a lower apparent wind

 

[Poignard]

Never happened in almost 5000 hours & 18 years of running. Amazing how well they operate if one looks after them properly.

I can do without the silly sarcasm, thank you.

I prefer to be able, where practicable, to handle my boat without its engine, should the need arise.

To rig my boat so that was unable to hoist the mainsail without running the engine doesn't seem to me like a very good idea.

 

[Daydream believer]

I can do without the silly sarcasm, thank you.

I prefer to be able, where practicable, to handle my boat without its engine, should the need arise.

To rig my boat so that was unable to hoist the mainsail without running the engine doesn't seem to me like a very good idea.

I made the comment because you preceeded it with

"Are people really saying they would start the engine under those circumstances? "

Why not? Seems to me a simple solution to hold the boat in to the wind under autopilot. With my fully battened main it does need to be head to wind as the cars bind. They are good quality ones. But all cars pull on the inner core. The boat will often get pushed of course in big waves & it makes it so much easier to hoist & save time

 

[stuartwineberg]

Some do some don't. Personally I try to set the positions and lengths of the lazy jacks to minimise the sail catching and make sure I'm as head to wind as possible. If it catches, I lower a few inches, wait for the wind to flick it out and raise quickly past that point. Generally if you watch as you raise the sail, you can time the hoist to miss the danger points.

+1. Exactly that. I have a fully battened sail and this works.

 

[ashtead]

I guess many will tend to be raising the sail under engine when leaving port and you might wait until enough space to turn head to wind but as said if crew are winching it’s up to helm/skipper to watch and tell them to lower and rehoist if it catches. It’s not really an issue if reefing down and shaking out a reef you tend to have more time to plan. That said it’s a far simple system than the risks of jammed in mast (before it’s said I know not all in mast jamb) or the technique of powering up and down on roller boom reefing.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Not much charged here after being away for a while ,
Picking hole in posting seen never ending .

 

[Daedelus]

I have a vague recollection that Crusader sails had some rigging arrangement to obviate the problem which they displayed at Soton boat show, I recall thinking it would work but wasn't that big an issue for me. Maybe have a look at their stand this year if they appear.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

For us, the huge advantages of lazyjacks easily overcomes the rather trivial drawback of having to be s bit careful to be head to wind for the initial hoist. On our boat, that is highly advisable, even if it were not a necessity. Inadvertently filling the sail could be disastrous .

 

[geem]

We love the lazy jacks and stackpack combo. So easy to drop a reef. The sail just sits there. You can adjust the lazy jacks to trim how you want the bag to function. We normally loosen the lazy jacks once the sail is hoisted so the top of the stackpack is level with the boom. If we drop a reef in we put a little more tension in stackpack to lift the bag a little. Job done.

 

[Lightwave395]

To put catching a batten on your mainsail with your lazyjacks into perspective this guy was anchored off my house today - took half an hour and an army of crew to raise the sails... Stunning looking boat IMHO

 

[ghostlymoron]

Some do some don't. Personally I try to set the positions and lengths of the lazy jacks to minimise the sail catching and make sure I'm as head to wind as possible. If it catches, I lower a few inches, wait for the wind to flick it out and raise quickly past that point. Generally if you watch as you raise the sail, you can time the hoist to miss the danger points.

Yes, I do the same. Not too much of a problem.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

To put catching a batten on your mainsail with your lazyjacks into perspective this guy was anchored off my house today - took half an hour and an army of crew to raise the sails... Stunning looking boat IMHO

View attachment 138515

It was indeed. Did you see us too, leaving the harbour while that was going on. And raising the main without catching a batten

 

[dunedin]

Heading directly into wind necessitates running the engine.

Suppose one has lowered the mainsail to put a reef in, or repair it, or have been running under bare poles, or under headsail only, and one wishes to hoist the sail again.

Are people really saying they would start the engine under those circumstances?

What would they do if the engine was out of action?

To be able to pull the lazy-jacks forward so they can't get caught be battens seems seems such an obvious thing to me, and so easy to arrange, that I can't understand why anyone would not want to be able to do it.

You are creating imaginary problems that don’t happen for many of us. Our lazy jacks were set when I fitted the sail, and untouched thereafter. Simply use a bit of observation and timing when hoisting the fully battened sail.
And whilst usually do so under motor, as tend to motor at start of any trip (even anchor as using power winch), also works fine under sail. Just go close hauled with jib sheeted in and move traveller down. Mainsail backwinds neatly in wind coming off the jib.

 

[Poignard]

You are creating imaginary problems that don’t happen for many of us. Our lazy jacks were set when I fitted the sail, and untouched thereafter. Simply use a bit of observation and timing when hoisting the fully battened sail.
And whilst usually do so under motor, as tend to motor at start of any trip (even anchor as using power winch), also works fine under sail. Just go close hauled with jib sheeted in and move traveller down. Mainsail backwinds neatly in wind coming off the jib.

I don't really feel the expense of installing a fully battened sail would be warranted when it is so easy to pull the lazy-jacks forward and hook them round their own cleat. I have to be at the mast anyway.

 

[steveeasy]

I like to control the tiller and hoist the main myself, but that is partly related to my wife’s now limited mobility and strength. I stand astride the tiller to steer and haul on the main halyard while keeping the boat’s head to wind. I do this with the mainsheet tight at first. When the leach has cleared the lazy jacks I loosen the mainsheet and complete the haul-up, only the last few inches needing winching. Except in a choppy sea, this generally works well, though it is in fact easier when there is a moderate wind since the sail flaps a bit and it tends to free itself from minor snags. There s always the odd occasion when you have to drop the sail a foot to free it, but it’s basically a question of technique.

Why does it sound so easy on other peoples boats!.
Steveeasy

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Why does it sound so easy on other peoples boats!.
Steveeasy

It does, doesnt it. Our main, even with it’s 2:1 halyard, is a huge pull. You’d need to be a young Shwazeneggger to do it whilst gripping the tiller with your knees. Fortunately I always sail with someone who can do the steering whilst I do an old fashioned two handed heave on 30metres of halyard, then finish off with the winch.

And lazyjacks, they’re really for us cockpit led pussies. I love them, and can get all the standing at the mast, and handing sails literally on an edwardian gaff cutter as often as any sane person would want, with not a winch or a lazyjack in sight.