Hit by Sunsail yacht, Am I being unreasonable?

I personally thought the comments directed at Sunsail then and now are totally unfair with the regards availability of a knife. Any boating type from a responsible kid up, who turns up to go out on the water or even the beach, without a suitable knife in their pocket; is not experienced enough to man a lilo never mind a safety boat .

IMO

Blaming the hire company for that, is like blaming Hertz (tut tut deary me) for not providing shoes in case a customer arrives bare foot to drive the rented transit home..
 
Mr. Dogwatch,
You are not allowed to carry knives in UK, suggesting kids should carry one on the beach or anywhere is irresponsible, I suggest you delete this post.
Or havent you heard about the spiralling knife crime in UK?
 
I was in casual conversation with a Sunsail flotilla leader in Greece recently and asked him what proof of sailing ability the company required He replied "Yes it's called a bank credit card" In reply to a previous post. - Hertz do insure that you have a driving licence I think
 
Thought for the day - If the powers that be were to legislate that we were all to need cert of comp or similar (I'm not advocating this by the way!) It would surely stuff up the charter industry.
 
A case in point - you need an ICC with CEVNI to take your own (UK) boat on the inland waterways of France, but nothing if you hire a boat....

Rick
 
OK Rick, does that not imply that the responsablity of a hirer's actions rests with the hiring company and therefore Sunsail is libel for damage done?
 
Sadly, I think that far too many of us have been afflicted by (a) the incompetence or indifference of Sunsail sailors and (b) the absolutely bloody minded indifference of their administrators.

Go for it, get every penny that you are rightfully entitled to.

Last time I cruised the Ionian, I think that every single little port or bay that we entered, was environmentally blighted by Sunsail litter, obsolete Sunsail notices etc. not to mention the Sunsail noise and inconsideration.
 
I don't think it's quite as simple as that. Yes, you do need ICC/CEVNI for French canals, but it also covers other inland waterways such as Seine and Rhône. Canal boat hirers are not allowed on rivers carrying commercial traffic.
 
Talk to the berth holders at Port Solent (some of whom are even my friends).
They are experts in having to cope with Sunsail enviromental blight.
They have gradually taken over more of the place and its facilities like some fast spreading weed.
It's got to the stage that 'berth holders' facilities are increasingly unavailable to them because Sunsail have spread their activities into them. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Look chaps, several years ago Sunsail allowed a bunch of novices to sail in hobi cat that did not have the safety bit attached to the top of the mast to stop it inverting and the "safety " crew had not been been trained on how to right an upturned boat.
As a direct consequence a young girl died when the boat capsized and the "rescue" boat kit did not include a knife which could have cut her free.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought that the RYA required you to remove the mast head bouyancy for Level 2 training courses at that time. However, whether a young girl should be allowed out in a boat which is so fast and goes wrong so quickly, is another matter.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Surely they inspect their boats on return and make the hirers pay for any damage to their boats. If so, it then follows that they don't use the money to repair their boats (which is why many are dented, gashed and have broken stanchions)

[/ QUOTE ]

Spot on.
I know of an incident where a bareboat race crew T-Boned the comittee boat, opening up a large hole in the comittee boat.
They were charged over £1000 for the damage to the comittee boat, in addition to what they paid to fix their boat.

The comittee boat was "fixed" with a bit of epoxy, some sawdust and copious amounts of duck tape.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Dogwatch,
You are not allowed to carry knives in UK, suggesting kids should carry one on the beach or anywhere is irresponsible, I suggest you delete this post.
Or havent you heard about the spiralling knife crime in UK?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, AFAIK, you are, as long as it is under three inches long (the blade) and you have a reasonable reason to be carrying it.
 
IMO

Blaming the hire company for that, is like blaming Hertz (tut tut deary me) for not providing shoes in case a customer arrives bare foot to drive the rented transit home..

[/ QUOTE ]

No this is a totally false analogy.
A more meaningful analogy would be allowing a 12 year old to hire a ferrari.

Of course sailing (and many other hobbies) have associated risks.
The point you miss is that Sunsail gave the pretence that everything was safe and controlled but the reality was totally different.

If the boat had been hired from a member of jo public and the accident had occurred then the issues would have been different.

Sunsail make a big thing about customer care and safety but it is just soundbite stuff to put punters at their ease so they can leave their kids on the beach in the hands of "trained" supervisors.

With regards to this issue "going through the courts" , the only people to have been prosecuted were the untrained sunsail employees, by virtue of the legal system in Greece Sunsail are untouchable.
 
A quick google shows here that you can carry a 3" blade as long as it can be folded. So you cannot carry a fixed blade at all.

However, if you can show "reasonable cause" you can carry a fixed blade longer than 3". Easy "reasonable cause" can be shown if it's required for your job. i.e. a chef can carry a role of knives to and from work. A fisherman can carry a fillet knife. I'm a sport diver and can easily show "reasonable cause" for carrying a dive knife while diving and transporting one to and from the site.

BUT, I would have a hard time carrying a dive knife while shopping.

I'd argue that a dinghy safety boat crew should carry a fixed blade knife that can easily cut through ropes. It's necessary to save live.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Dogwatch,
You are not allowed to carry knives in UK, suggesting kids should carry one on the beach or anywhere is irresponsible, I suggest you delete this post.
Or havent you heard about the spiralling knife crime in UK?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are wrong. Carving knives yes, Bowie knives yes but not a Gerber or Leatherman. This is state interference one step too far.

IIRC The CE of the Institution of Civil Engineers was stopped for having a leatherman in his briefcase prior to boarding the Eurostar. He protested and was arrested. He did not let it stand there and got a full apology from the Police.

We do dinghy racing and I consider a knife hanging from a lanyard the most important piece of safety kit after a buoyancy aid. Necessary for cutting ropes, undoing shackles and all the other repairs that are necessary. I would not consider going to sea without a multitool knife like a leatherman wave (available for $62 in the USA but thats another story!)
 
Great, so unless I can sail my 22ft e-boat to Greece I effectivley can't charter a sunsail yacht without being branded Pig ignorant and a danger to myself and everybody else I come in contact with.

Does this mean I'm considered ok if I charter from someone else? or maybe if I display a 2m x 2m laminated copy of my sailing qualifications on the side of the boat or is only ok to go on holiday sailing if I have enough spare cash to buy a 40ft AWB and keep it parked in the med?

Just out of interest what is the minimum qualification I need to have before I am considered competent to hire a charter boat? I sympathise with the original post about sunsail turing a blind eye but these threads attract some really objectionable views about access to sailing generally.
 
The point is Drannie, that if you had no experience, you COULDN'T go charter from anyone else... they'd demand some track record....

IMHO, the minimum qualification you need is experience... not a ticket... if you don't have that experience, then go in a flotilla, or a skippered charter, not a bareboat....
 
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