Help save Watchet Harbour P L E A S E
- Thread starter sarabande
- Start date
ANDY_W
Active member
Signed and contributed. I'm sorry to say that I do not hold out any hope that anything will change for the better in the short term.
Essentially, it seems that no-one involved has any money available to deal with the problem, if, indeed, any solution is possible.
I live just down the road in Taunton, and a viable marina would be very tempting. I remember when the marina was first proposed
and had doubts then about being able to deal with silt. I mean, who could guess that creating a half tide basin full of still silt laden water
would allow the silt to be deposited at the bottom of the basin? Many years ago I was at Bridgwater dock and got talking with someone
who had worked there before it closed. Apparently the operating company had to permanently employ two men using high pressure hoses
each low tide to wash away the silt on the river side of the lock gates so that they could be used on the next high tide. Thus, silting has been
a known problem for a long time.
Essentially, it seems that no-one involved has any money available to deal with the problem, if, indeed, any solution is possible.
I live just down the road in Taunton, and a viable marina would be very tempting. I remember when the marina was first proposed
and had doubts then about being able to deal with silt. I mean, who could guess that creating a half tide basin full of still silt laden water
would allow the silt to be deposited at the bottom of the basin? Many years ago I was at Bridgwater dock and got talking with someone
who had worked there before it closed. Apparently the operating company had to permanently employ two men using high pressure hoses
each low tide to wash away the silt on the river side of the lock gates so that they could be used on the next high tide. Thus, silting has been
a known problem for a long time.
oldgit
Well-known member
Looks a nice little harbour.
Doubt any of the local councils have any money to invest.
As for private enterprise , they will want a return on the money they borrow to finance the improvements.
Looking at the commercial mooring rates they are not exactly cheap to start with.
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LittleSister
Well-known member
I, too, had severe doubts beforehand that it could ever be viable long-term.
(I was involved at the time in academic research looking at how changes in the government's 'rural economic development' funding mechanisms was driving particular sorts of local schemes, and how this involved and affected the particular local communities. )
There was government money available to contribute to the cost of the such schemes, local authorities and communities were strongly encouraged to bid for them. Both national and local government could say they we're 'doing something' to tackle issues. Consultants and contractors made money. Some survived, but the country is littered with the failed or struggling (and funding hungry) outcomes. This is one of the more visible ones.
I guess, but don't know, that one potential reason for not getting rid of the current operator is the local authority might well struggle to find any plausible company to take it on.
(I was involved at the time in academic research looking at how changes in the government's 'rural economic development' funding mechanisms was driving particular sorts of local schemes, and how this involved and affected the particular local communities. )
There was government money available to contribute to the cost of the such schemes, local authorities and communities were strongly encouraged to bid for them. Both national and local government could say they we're 'doing something' to tackle issues. Consultants and contractors made money. Some survived, but the country is littered with the failed or struggling (and funding hungry) outcomes. This is one of the more visible ones.
I guess, but don't know, that one potential reason for not getting rid of the current operator is the local authority might well struggle to find any plausible company to take it on.
Praxinoscope
Well-known member
Happy to sign this petition, Watchet is a prime example of the poor managent by the Marine Group of all their marinas’
we are still breathing sighs of relief that our local Councils option of offering Aberaeron to the Marine Group is dead in the water.
But as Andy_W has suggested where alternative funding and managent is to be found is the problem.
we are still breathing sighs of relief that our local Councils option of offering Aberaeron to the Marine Group is dead in the water.
But as Andy_W has suggested where alternative funding and managent is to be found is the problem.
Graham_Wright
Well-known member
There is huge energy in the Bristol Channel tides.
I wonder if it is possible to use this to power clearing the silt.
I'll put it on my list of things to ponder while sleepless at 0300.
I wonder if it is possible to use this to power clearing the silt.
I'll put it on my list of things to ponder while sleepless at 0300.
Concerto
Well-known member
Just signed. The harbour needs investment to make it work as a marina. Padstow has a small harbour with a sill, so why does Watchet not have an operational one. Another harbour on the south side of the Bristol Channel would be very useful. Checking on Google, most of the photos of Watchet show the harbour as the first image, so it is an important feature of the town and should not be left to silt up.
sarabande
Well-known member
A good suggestion, GW.
Why not build a pound inside the harbour to capture the water at high tide ? Then on the ebb, use the impounded water through hoses to wash away the mud. No motors - therefore net-zero. Probably could be done with just one operator for 2 - 3 hours a day, gradually jetting the silt away. Boring job but with clear deliverables.
To gain extra head one might even dam the stream and pipe it to the harbour.
Why not build a pound inside the harbour to capture the water at high tide ? Then on the ebb, use the impounded water through hoses to wash away the mud. No motors - therefore net-zero. Probably could be done with just one operator for 2 - 3 hours a day, gradually jetting the silt away. Boring job but with clear deliverables.
To gain extra head one might even dam the stream and pipe it to the harbour.
Praxinoscope
Well-known member
I think that GW’s suggestion has possibilities, but I think the only way of getting to the point that this would work is that a full dredging of the harbour has to be undertaken first, (unfortunately expensive but this silt is a build-up of many years) once cleared it should be possible to adopt some form of scouring system as suggested to maintain the cleared harbour.
Tranona
Well-known member
Our coasts are littered with silted up former harbours. It happens because there is insufficient economic activity to support the cost of keeping silt at bay - the harbours are artificial and man made.
So Watchet will only become viable if the users are prepared to pay the cost. I did a lot of work a few years ago on identifying the cost bases of different types of marinas and dredging is a significant cost of all marinas built in tidal and estuarial locations (as many are). This of course is passed on to users in berth charges. In places like Lymington, Cobbs Quay, Poole , the many marinas in the Upper reaches of the Solent and Chichester rivers and on the east coast demand ensures that the costs of dredging, locks etc to make them usable are more easily met. Worth comparing cost bases of those marinas that are built in old commercial docks in industrial areas where the costs of the infrastructure to make them deep water was covered years ago by commercial activity. It is this which helps keep the berthing costs in many of these down well below those where on going costs of maintenance of depth are high.
Highly unlikely that Watchet could attract sufficient boats prepared to pay the cost of making it usable on a continuing basis, so the only other course is to convince the "community" to fund it as a "common good" via funding from taxes. As can be seen by the current system there is a reluctance to do this.
So Watchet will only become viable if the users are prepared to pay the cost. I did a lot of work a few years ago on identifying the cost bases of different types of marinas and dredging is a significant cost of all marinas built in tidal and estuarial locations (as many are). This of course is passed on to users in berth charges. In places like Lymington, Cobbs Quay, Poole , the many marinas in the Upper reaches of the Solent and Chichester rivers and on the east coast demand ensures that the costs of dredging, locks etc to make them usable are more easily met. Worth comparing cost bases of those marinas that are built in old commercial docks in industrial areas where the costs of the infrastructure to make them deep water was covered years ago by commercial activity. It is this which helps keep the berthing costs in many of these down well below those where on going costs of maintenance of depth are high.
Highly unlikely that Watchet could attract sufficient boats prepared to pay the cost of making it usable on a continuing basis, so the only other course is to convince the "community" to fund it as a "common good" via funding from taxes. As can be seen by the current system there is a reluctance to do this.
Blueboatman
Well-known member
Seriously, that was the mechanism at the boatyard where I worked , it flushed the channel and slipway and marine railway and literally meant that boats could be hauled earlier on a tide and indeed on lesser (neap) tides…And all you had to do was lift a mechanical sluice every so often at low tide, how difficult is that ?
Footnote: The same yard had some moorings under their care which abruptly were taken back by the nominal harbour sublease holding Co ( dubious and unchallenged at the time, imo) .. and so were forced to fill in the sluice pond and add storage capacity ashore to restore lost mooring revenues…
Oho..
Result? Yup… silting
Result no2 ? Bigger boats were now hauled on the big nocturnal spring tides, really late at night.
And result no3? Yup… Noise complaints at night from neighbourly residences, perhaps unsurprisingly .
And that helped expedite ….End of yard
Nothing new under the sun really
AntarcticPilot
Well-known member
I understand that the harbour at St Andrews is kept clear by a system like this.
Praxinoscope
Well-known member
Watchet is a lovely little harbour and should really appeal to those moored in Cardiff as a weekend venue with all the advantages of bringing visiting boats and crews into the town, but the silting problem had to be solved.
It seems a shame that the local council, chamber of trade and other interested parties haven’t formed a group to study how practically and economically, this little harbour can be cleared and again bring in the potential visitor earnings, but not by bringing in some outside property company to run it.
If the harbour declines, its not just the boating community that will leave, the overall tourist numbers will gradually decline as part of the attraction for visitors is to see and wander around an attractive operational harbour, and use the local pubs and restaurants, lose this part of Watchet and the towns income will also decline.
It seems a shame that the local council, chamber of trade and other interested parties haven’t formed a group to study how practically and economically, this little harbour can be cleared and again bring in the potential visitor earnings, but not by bringing in some outside property company to run it.
If the harbour declines, its not just the boating community that will leave, the overall tourist numbers will gradually decline as part of the attraction for visitors is to see and wander around an attractive operational harbour, and use the local pubs and restaurants, lose this part of Watchet and the towns income will also decline.
Tranona
Well-known member
These are common arguments - I have used them myself in bids for infrastructure support in tourist areas. However it is difficult to first actually establish a positive link then quantify it. Marinas primarily benefit users, just as the original harbour was created to serve the commercial users who paid for it. While councils such as in Dorset where I live see it as part of their role to pay for infrastructure that is because the council gets a significant direct inflow of income from many of them - even if they sometimes cock up like the surf reef off Boscombe!.
Councils like the one here simply don't have the resources to invest in such projects in the hope that they can generate enough income to maintain it. Subsidising "rich yotties" in the hope that it will generate spin off activity does not go down well with ratepayers.
Councils like the one here simply don't have the resources to invest in such projects in the hope that they can generate enough income to maintain it. Subsidising "rich yotties" in the hope that it will generate spin off activity does not go down well with ratepayers.
Refueler
Well-known member
I think it a shame that so many small harbours and not so small get neglected in UK and many other places. UK has a healthy boating market - with often shortage in desired locations for berths.
But then again - maintaining facilities costs money - which many of the authorities don't have and commercial interests are not interested unless profitable.
Sad ....
But then again - maintaining facilities costs money - which many of the authorities don't have and commercial interests are not interested unless profitable.
Sad ....
PCUK
Well-known member
If the marina was run as a club with low mooring fees that were subsidised with volunteer labour then it may be possible to fill the marina to capacity. This would increase revenue. Many boat owners would be very happy to be part of running the marina and with their many diverse skills and business experience could make it a success using either the injection dredger or a scouring basin or both!
sarabande
Well-known member
Watchet used to have a Fishermens Association (about 30 years ago IIRC) which laid and maintained various moorings before the marina was set up by Dean and Dunball, who changed the course of the stream into the harbour.
I believe a CIC set up to manage the harbour as a community asset would find favour with the new Somerset Council, Watchet Town, and HMRC (who must be looking into Marine Services with some interest.
Anyone want to join in ?
I believe a CIC set up to manage the harbour as a community asset would find favour with the new Somerset Council, Watchet Town, and HMRC (who must be looking into Marine Services with some interest.
Anyone want to join in ?
Praxinoscope
Well-known member
Tranona, I agree with much of what you say, but I would argue that Watchet is not really suitable as a marina, it’s too small to generate the income a full blown marina costs in development and maintenance, a more economic option might be to dredge, and simply lay heavy cross chains suitable for fore/aft risers. Fewer moorings, but considerably lower investment.
This would still provide visitor moorings along the West wall.
The question of whether to hold water in with with a gate/ sill system or maintain it as a drying harbour is another aspect to consider, but there is a need in any option to find a method of scouring the harbour to prevent the silt build up.
This would still provide visitor moorings along the West wall.
The question of whether to hold water in with with a gate/ sill system or maintain it as a drying harbour is another aspect to consider, but there is a need in any option to find a method of scouring the harbour to prevent the silt build up.
oldgit
Well-known member
Judging from the howls of anguish from our" locals" when residential waterside properties were/are proposed to help generate capitol to enable development of old commercial docks , do not hold your breath that the locals will be lining up in support.
Classic case was Chatham Dockyard when the Navy moved out.
MDL first saw the possibilities of using the old dock (generating a very predictable chorus of derision from locals including the boating community).
Especially the proposal of housing around the dock basin and who on earth would want to berth in a marina in a former old dockyard. .
Funding from the now defuct SEEDA helped kick off a very successful regeneration of the area.
You will need have to have very deep pockets indeed to purchase one of the waterside properties now, or get berth in the marina in recent times.
The shopping outlet and host of resturants which sprung up attract folks from across the county.
Proposals to develop another part of the dock have also met the same resistance for the same reasons ,ie. loss of jobs and just more houses for posh people.
Would this be the same objectors complaining to the council and whinging about the noise/ smells/ HGV traffic coming from the very same dock but a few months ago.
Surely not !
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Refueler
Well-known member
The development of any area brings forth profiteers ... unavoidable. If you think its just where you guys are ...
My house is on 3.5acres (14,200 sq.m) ....
Guy bought land to left about 10,000 sq.m and now his property valued at about 1.5 million
Guy bought land to right - again about 10,000 sq.m and building an enormous complex ... final estimated value 3 million.
This was land that before would have sold for about 40,000 euros each. Today - the land further along the river bank which was earmarked for residential 1,000 sq m plots is unsold. People are buying land and building 2 blocks in from there due pricing.
One awful Architects monstrosity on a plot of about 1,000 sq.m well away from any access to river ... with no view whatsoever is now on market for 475,000 euros ....
My house is on 3.5acres (14,200 sq.m) ....
Guy bought land to left about 10,000 sq.m and now his property valued at about 1.5 million
Guy bought land to right - again about 10,000 sq.m and building an enormous complex ... final estimated value 3 million.
This was land that before would have sold for about 40,000 euros each. Today - the land further along the river bank which was earmarked for residential 1,000 sq m plots is unsold. People are buying land and building 2 blocks in from there due pricing.
One awful Architects monstrosity on a plot of about 1,000 sq.m well away from any access to river ... with no view whatsoever is now on market for 475,000 euros ....