Help! How to get my new Sonata back to the Solent?

[{151760}]

It's certainly possible with the equipment you have. You're better equipped than most people were in the 80s. As someone else mentioned the limiting factor is yourself. Only you can decide if you have sufficient confidence to undertake the voyage. Good luck.

Plan carefully. You really don't want to get caught in the Portland race with no wind and a dodgy outboard. You won't get in through the Hurst Narrows at full ebb.

 

[PeterR]

I had a Sonata for nearly 20 years and regularly took her across the channel. They are well up to the task but a long beat would be very tiring and best avoided. You will sail much faster than you can motor if there is any wind around so the motor is only relevant in a a flat calm and for getting in and out of harbour. Get yours serviced and/or try to borrow a spare. You can carry one on the transom and one stowed under the cockpit steps. Long term you do need a battery if you are going to cruise but you will not be able to charge it much at sea so fixed lights are not a great deal of use. Admittedly LEDs will be better than the standard ones I had but even so emergency ones run of their own batteries are adequate. Long term you will also need need an echo sounder but for your trip you can manage fine till you get to the Solent and even then with a bit of local knowledge you can get by for a delivery.

If it gets windy you really need a third reef in the main which your racing sails will not have. However, you can get by with just the non-overlapping headsail on its own. The latter is absolutely essential. They used to come with a reefing point but if you can get an old one cut down to a No4 size as well so much the better. Hand held VHFs are OK for getting into and out of harbour but you won't get much range. See if you can get a mast head arial fitted which you can connect to a handheld.

When passing Portland Bill be sure to close the headland well inshore and follow the coast round. The tide sets very strongly due south and a Sonata may well be unable to avoid being swept into the race if you approach from seawards particularly if you are likely to get into a wind shadow. The motor is likely to be almost useless in the waves even in the "smooth" inshore passage.

At both Portland Bill and Hurst Narrows you will have to make sure you arrive on the flood tide as you will not make any progress at all in a Sonata on the ebb.

Pick your weather and you will be fine.

Good luck.

 

[jwilson]

How things have changed, I used to do this passage regularly in my Hunter 19 singlehanded. I thought the minimum requirements were a compass, a chart and a paraffin lamp. You seem a lot better equipped already!

+1
though these days I'd borrow someone's 2.5 or 3.5 tender outboard as a spare. Give it a sail on a windy day first just outside Brixham to find what breaks or doesn't work (something always does on your first sail) and then choose your weather for the longer trip. Don't make across Lyme Bay be your first sail.

 

[scottie]

I thought it was against class rules to for Sonatas to sail on there own as they always seem to be in packs ��

 

[bbg]

I would not hesitate to do it with the equipment you have. The only thing that would make me hesitate is the engine. As someone has said, if you can borrow a small one that is reliable, that would be ideal.

My personal preference would be to get offshore a bit and do it in one hop, preferably with someone else on board.

 

[[3889]]

As they are only 7 metres long they only need an all round white light to comply with regs ,

Is that correct?

"(d) (i) A sailing vessel of less than 7 meter in length shall, if practicable, exhibit the lights prescribed in Rule 25(a) or (b), but if she does not, she shall [exhibit an all around white light or] have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white light which shall be exhibited in sufficient time to prevent collision. "

My understanding of the term 'practicable' is that the regulation should be complied with if technically possible, which is the case with nav lights on a Sonata. Where cost may be taken into consideration for compliance the term 'reasonably practicable' is normally used.

 

[richardsn9]

It is certainly do-able. I made 100 mile hops across the North Sea to Holland in mine, but the lively motion can wear you out more than you think.

For occasional night sailing I used LED detachable bike lights - they are cheap, bright, although they do not totally match the prescribed arcs, but seem to work OK and the batteries easily last a night. If you buy two sets that gives you two reds and two whites. Paint the lens of one of the white lights green, and then you have a red/green/white set and a spare red light for the cabin! I had a big million candlepower lantern to shine on the sails if in any doubt!

 

[MissFitz]

Many thanks for all the help & encouragement, fantastic to hear from so many people with first-hand experience of this kind of thing, has really given me confidence to go for it. Lots of excellent advice also, particularly regarding the engine & going for a shake-down sail. Plan now is to go down to Brixham this weekend with a pile of kit, load up the boat & take it out for the day on Sunday. If the engine seems dicey I'll either get it serviced or borrow a better one. With a bit of luck I'll then be all set for the delivery after Easter - fingers crossed for decent conditions! (And if it does get hairy there are two reefs in the main, plus two No2s & a No3 - which was one of the things I liked about this boat.)

Thanks again!

(ps I have a few more questions regarding the lights but will post separately to avoid confusion.)

 

[Motor_Sailor]

Sonatas usually only have two headsails when kitted out for racing: the genoa and a full hoist Solent or No 3.

The problem with the smaller 'racing' headsail is that it has battens along the leach which are good for performance but prone to damage in high winds. It would be worth laying the sails out and seeing exactly what you have got. As lots of Sonatas have lead dual lives as true cruiser / racers, it worth seeing if you have some more appropriate 'delivery' sails. The early mainsails also had much less roach which again made them better in a blow.

With only one or two people on board it's unlikely you could hold her flat enough to see much performance gain from using the genoa rather than the full hoist No 3, unless it was so light you would probably be motoring any way.

Finally unless you have a Mk2, the outboard is offset and motorsailing when heeled is a very frustrating affair, especially when on port tack as the prop isn't really big enough to be effective up in the air.

 

[oldharry]

I did this sort of trip down west and back from the Solent most summers in the 60s, 70s and early 90s in smaller less reputable boats (i.e plywood usually past its sink by date) and usually around 7m. VHF? What for - Who would i need to speak to? (Still applies, Ive got VHF, but hardly ever use it .) GPS? satellites hadnt advanced much beyond Sputnik particularly at first! Compass, chart, small rubber dinghy, and paraffin lamp. Luxury later on when I fitted electric nav lights! Usually a Seagull hung on the back, which wasnt worth the effort of trying to start it anyway! Weather forecasting was the 6.30 Shipping Forecast, and if you overslept you had to wait 6 hours. So unless it looked iffy, you went anyway.

If the weather was iffy, then I would head up to Lyme or West Bay, from which it was a 4 - 5 hour run to round the Bill, and you could usually time it to catch the tidal window (though once it cut up rough, and I got there much too soon, which was interesting to say the least, in a 20 footer! I just turned back a couple of miles and hung around until it all settled down a bit.)

Sailing was definitely more interesting in those days. Coast hopping was more the norm as we ran from one bolt hole to the next... It meant it took a bit longer, but we were on holiday anyway!

I always carried an assortment of flares, but never to this day have I fired one in anger, and only twice actually needed the VHF - both times to arrange medical support for an asthmatic child.

Made it all the way down to Falmouth and back in a 20 footer with very basic equipment once. A distinct advantage was that it had a decent outboard that actually started 1st or 2nd pull...

I'm not spurning modern day aids. Many is the time I wished I had them, particuarly GPS. Just as Nelson would have given his back teeth for a hefty Deutz diesel in Victory at Trafalgar. No he wasnt a keen sailor: just ask yourself how many sailing warships does the Navy have nowadays? Though the way its going we may get back to that, but thats another story! My point is, safety aids, Compass and chart, and lights, an efficient means of calling for help if things went badly pear shaped (VHF nowadays) and a reasonably well found boat was all we had, and its perfectly possible, sane and reasonable to do it that way still today.

IMHO anyway.

 

[steve yates]

Definitely not a problem, especially as you can already sail.
I took a bradwell 18 1200 miles to the top of Scotland and back last year, from Cumbria via man and Ireland, 1000 of them singlehanded. No vhf, no autopilot, no lights. I used Cree bike lights, clip on red and green and white ones, about a fiver each. Get the outboard serviced though, mines wasn't working at the start of the trip and it makes a big difference when it's reliable and has some power!

 

[Judders]

For occasional night sailing I used LED detachable bike lights - they are cheap, bright, although they do not totally match the prescribed arcs, but seem to work OK and the batteries easily last a night. If you buy two sets that gives you two reds and two whites. Paint the lens of one of the white lights green, and then you have a red/green/white set and a spare red light for the cabin! I had a big million candlepower lantern to shine on the sails if in any doubt!

Even easier if you buy these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00C0SQPOA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[markhomer]

Is that correct?

"(d) (i) A sailing vessel of less than 7 meter in length shall, if practicable, exhibit the lights prescribed in Rule 25(a) or (b), but if she does not, she shall [exhibit an all around white light or] have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white light which shall be exhibited in sufficient time to prevent collision. "

My understanding of the term 'practicable' is that the regulation should be complied with if technically possible, which is the case with nav lights on a Sonata. Where cost may be taken into consideration for compliance the term 'reasonably practicable' is normally used.

Hence me saying however with the low cost of modern led battery powered lights you may as well fit them

 

[markhomer]

Inspiration and tips for you
https://roundscotland2015.wordpress.com/page/2/

 

[[3889]]

Hence me saying however with the low cost of modern led battery powered lights you may as well fit them

But my question is whether an all round white alone is a legitimate option at all, as you stated it was, on a Sonata.

 

[{151760}]

Even easier if you buy these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00C0SQPOA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Those don't appear to be true navigation lights as they don't have the required 'sectoring'.
I would rather have the simple all-round white than a set of false lights that could cause a disastrous mis-understanding.

 

[{151760}]

But my question is whether an all round white alone is a legitimate option at all, as you stated it was, on a Sonata.

The key word is 'practicable'. It doesn't say 'if possible'. 'Practicable' is open to interpretation. It implies having the time and money, or skills to fit permanent lights, perhaps. It's possible to do the journey in daylight hops, though that would involve a stopover at Lyme which may not be practicable.

 

[lw395]

The key word is 'practicable'. It doesn't say 'if possible'. 'Practicable' is open to interpretation. It implies having the time and money, or skills to fit permanent lights, perhaps. It's possible to do the journey in daylight hops, though that would involve a stopover at Lyme which may not be practicable.

I have done a stopover at Lyme. The guaranteed N wind came from the South and it was a very rolly night on a buoy outside.
Going inside would have meant leaving quite near HW.
A chat with the HM or the sailing club might be worthwhile.

From Brixham, Weymouth should be possible in daylight. There is plenty of tide to be had.
Obviously beating in light airs it may not happen.

 

[Haven't-a-Clue]

Ayoop. Did this trip (well actually Torquay to Hamble) last year. I had.....no, let's get this right, I helped Tidewaiter of this parish to deliver my new to me LM 24 last July. Looking back and with the added experience of sailing from Bursledon to Sweares Deep at the top of Chichester harbour on Saturday, I'd say that a series of day sails would get the job done without much angst on your part. Get a good forecast and you're away. As it happens we will be down that way till Sat afternoon, so if you wanted a second opinion or such......

 

[Iliade]

Engine worries: Get a sweep. 100% reliable. Maybe oars if the coaming is low enough, I don't know.

Lights: All round white LED battery light and some spare batteries.

Sailing: Just do it!

If you are really paranoid you can borrow my PLB & SPOT tracker! (Not 21/4-7/5 because I'll be using them)