Hello. Dyneema tools...

[noelex]

My wife does all our wonderful Dyneema work, but I have the job of making some of the custom tools used.

These type of loop fids in various sizes seem to be the tool most commonly used. They are just bent loops of wire, but I add a handle which mainly just looks nice .

https://imgur.com/N2dwmZV

https://imgur.com/MxDDcNF

 

[zoidberg]

My wife does all our wonderful Dyneema work,

Does she have a sister? Inquiring for a friend....

 

[Neeves]

Does she have a sister? Inquiring for a friend....

My fids are much longer. I just bend the wire back on itself and leave it untwisted. If you twist it - its thicker. and more difficult to insert the dyneema. If you are splicing both ends you need the wires to be as thin (and sometimes as long) as possible. If you are splicing both ends then you will have both wires inserted at the same time (or you insert one wire then the other - then pull through), I pull the wire + dyneema through with a pair of pliers or a Mole wrench.

Jonathan

 

[Gsailor]

Thank you for replies.

Just fun for me.

I think the twisted wire fid with wooden handle looks great, but I did wonder why the twist?

 

[zoidberg]

I think the twisted wire fid with wooden handle looks great, but I did wonder why the twist?

Agreed. It looks great.

But as Jon Neeves states, that makes the tool thicker and less flexible.... therefore far harder to work with embedded in thin Dyneema. And one can't readily separate the two 'arms' to insert and grip a core before pulling through.

However, if 'noelex's wife uses it to produce what is on show above, it certainly has merits.

 

[Neeves]

I agree with Zoidberg - those soft shackles look brilliant.

I find that inserting dyneema into a small hole/slot not easy as the fibres are very fine. You thus need a wide eye which then does not grip as well as a tight eye (and I tightened my eye in a vice to make it grip 'better'. - Its easier if you can split the two wires (away from the 'end' or eye) and then simply pull the dyneema up to that end/eye, the tight eye then grips the dyneema and there is no (or less) danger of you losing the end when you pull through..

The soft shackles I particularly wanted to make (which started me on the adventure) are quite long so my fids are about 700mm long. But for soft shackles that are simply replacing stainless shackles a short fid like Noelex' would be more than adequate.

I'm not particularly interested in replacing stainless shackles, I'm happy with them. I'm more interested in using the concept in applications where shackles don't work at all (or not well). For example - Barber hauling and its variants.

Jonathan

 

[thinwater]

I agree with Zoidberg - those soft shackles look brilliant.

I find that inserting dyneema into a small hole/slot not easy as the fibres are very fine. You thus need a wide eye which then does not grip as well as a tight eye (and I tightened my eye in a vice to make it grip 'better'. - Its easier if you can split the two wires (away from the 'end' or eye) and then simply pull the dyneema up to that end/eye, the tight eye then grips the dyneema and there is no (or less) danger of you losing the end when you pull through..

The soft shackles I particularly wanted to make (which started me on the adventure) are quite long so my fids are about 700mm long. But for soft shackles that are simply replacing stainless shackles a short fid like Noelex' would be more than adequate.

I'm not particularly interested in replacing stainless shackles, I'm happy with them. I'm more interested in using the concept in applications where shackles don't work at all (or not well). For example - Barber hauling and its variants.

Jonathan

My rules for using soft shackles are these:

• Will a metal shackle damamge something? My head (jib clew), the mast, the deck, etc.
• Will a Dyneema shackle be subject to excessive chafe? Sharp edges, anchor shackle, etc.
• Will a metal shackle fit better? Is a Dyneema shackle too flexible. Some furlers, some travelers, etc.
• Does light weight has a real advantage? Barberhaulers, sail clews, tarps, etc.
• Does no-tools have a real advantage? Is it opened often?
• Is non-release under any load a problem or benefit or neutral? Soft shackles require complete slack and no flogging.

In other words, use the one that is better. I use them some places and not others. And there are three general categories of soft shackles:

• Conventional.
• Open (Kohlhoff). See post 21. Easier to open, less prone to jamming with salt.
• Toggled. Bulkier and some metal, but strongest and easiest to handle with gloves or cold fingers.

Finally, always keep a few in the tool box for bodges. Very handy.

 

[Gsailor]

Hello and Welcome

I'd be interested to know why you need dyneema?

Just for fun and to try something new and apparently is really really easy to work with.

 

[gregcope]

I brought some lidl rope to make some mousing lines on Saturday. I wanted to splice in a flemish eye (a spliced eye with no core).

I have let my splicing tools to a friend so set myself a Sunday challenge of DIY.

Tools used;
Household pliers (or multitool)
Kitchen chopping board
Sharp kitchen knife
A length of doubled over 2.5mm copper earth as a D splicer puller thing (the one from @noelex looks lovely)
Biro core as tiny fid
Used biro outer as bigger fid
Tape measure
Electrical tape
Household Thick kneedle/thread

The above would work for upto 6mm (biro size)

 

[ctva]

In researching dyneema splicing, I came across this YouTube channel of a climber/slack liner who does gear testing and after watching, I’m cautious about where I use a dyneema splice. As others have said, it is slippery stuff and this affects splices which rely on friction to hold…

 

[zoidberg]

Yup!

There's benefit in doing some 'square stitching' along a hollow Dyneema splice, even if the 'bury' is up to 72x diameter ( as recommended ).

That prevents the buried core from easing out when the splice is repeatedly unloaded and flogging about.

 

[Neeves]

Yup!

There's benefit in doing some 'square stitching' along a hollow Dyneema splice, even if the 'bury' is up to 72x diameter ( as recommended ).

That prevents the buried core from easing out when the splice is repeatedly unloaded and flogging about.

Definitely agree.

The tensions might be much higher than you expect and adding stitches is hardly onerous. I use braided dyneema fishing line. With some splices I have made at both ends I have been simply sewing the centre as the 2 buries overlap. I have also whipped over the stitches - but not really sure if necessary.

Based on the idea of 72 times diameter and 6mm dyneema that effectively means the buried tail needs to be around 0.5m. If spliced at both ends the tails need to be length of the total splice which means 2 buries full length (hence my 2 long fids).

Jonathan

 

[thinwater]

I think about 1/3 of my Dyneema and polyester DB splices, including some Dyneema standing rigging work, have been performed in the field with nothing but ...

• Sharp knife
• Roll of rigging wire
• Needle and whipping twine

I always have these on the boat.

That is all. No fid, special scissors, Sharpie, ruler, or anything else. Those things are nice, but it really is that simple. Cut to length, pull it through, taper, and lock stitch/whip/seize as needed. I did an end-to-end in DB for a continuous traveler line a few weeks ago with only that. Easy and nearly impossible to spot.

---

BTW, at 72:1 the lock stitching carries no load. It is only there to trigger the contraction. A light pinch of your fingers would be enough.The only reason to use relatively durable thread is UV and chafe, but once the line wears for a while, the friction becomes natural and the need for stitching diminishes, so it does not matter tha much if the stitching wears a bit.

If you shorten the bury, then you must either improve the lock stiching or provide of there increases in friction. For example, in soft shackles and many strops, the bury makes a 180 turn under load, greatly increasing internal friction and reducing the required bury length. But there has been only limitied testing, because these constructions generally break somewhere else before the bury fails. This is how shorter constructions are sometimes possible.

That said, at some point you need to try something different if the space is too short, like a lashing.

 

[Neeves]

For completeness.

These are my 2 longs fids. I have them inserted from either end of a long shackle, the intention being to make a shackle with 2 eyes. I can then cow hitch the eyes to, whatever. The fids are made from the core of a Morse cable and simply bent over the crimped with pliers, and then a decent vice, to make the eye. The wires are not closed apart from the eye and it is easy to insert the dyneema and pull up into the eye. The shackle is being made from 6mm Liros and (a lot of guessing in terms of dimensions, one eye will be about twice the size of the other. The pull through will be about 75cm and I will be sewing through the centre of the shackle, so at about 35cm, with braided Dynema fishing line so as to cement the bury.

I'd made a couple of shorter shackles, with eyes at each end, but decided they, the shackles not the eyes, were not long enough and have made 2 more identical shackles.



Jonathan

 

[Sandy]

In researching dyneema splicing, I came across this YouTube channel of a climber/slack liner who does gear testing and after watching, I’m cautious about where I use a dyneema splice. As others have said, it is slippery stuff and this affects splices which rely on friction to hold…

Good lord he says a lot without saying anything.

 

[Neeves]

One of the problems of making your own soft shackles is that you have little idea of the strength of what you have made and you would need to make and measure a lot of what you make to provide a base load of data. The other problem - most people have no idea of the loads that might be involved in the application to which they apply the shackle. The fall back is to look at recommendations, as Harken or Lewmar might publish for a given set of conditions (but your conditions are unlikely to be identical) and/or - you simply and grossly oversize.

Where friction is being relied on to provide the strength, I try to follow the recommendation for length of bury vs diameter of cordage ... and then - I sew, using braided dyneema fishing line. The trouble with sewing - it spoils what was a nice neat bury .

Jonathan

 

[ctva]

Good lord he says a lot without saying anything.

well, I learnt a lot and his explanations for this and the multitude of other testing videos are very informative with his self deprecating and fun style.