Hello. Dyneema tools...

[Gsailor]

Hi, I am returning to sailing.

Some new tech on the scene.

Please, what are best tools for splicing dyneema?

Swedish fid or just a bent bit of smooth wire?

I know how to splice but dyneema is new to me and I have not even bought any yet; just read about it.

I am will be fitting out a modest 20 footer.

 

[Neeves]

I asked the same question 2 weeks ago and based on advise I have used bent wire. I happened to have a failed Morse cable and I used the core. In fact I made 2 (the Morse cable is very long) and I can run both of my new fids, one from each end.

The search function is not bad

Fids for splicing dyneema

And

Welcome to the forum

Jonathan

 

[dunedin]

Welcome to the forum.

Unless your 20 footer is a race boat, I doubt if any of the ropes need the expense of dyneema. Conventional ropes and bowlines sufficed for many decades on the boats, and remain the practical and cost effective route.
Clearly some enjoy playing with fancy ropes - our clothes airer is held up on spliced dyneema running through roller pulleys, but that was our son’s diversion when he had access to this stuff for free - but it is not really necessary on small boats. At 40 foot we have a lot of cruising dyneema for halyards etc.

 

[Gsailor]

I asked the same question 2 weeks ago and based on advise I have used bent wire. I happened to have a failed Morse cable and I used the core. In fact I made 2 (the Morse cable is very long) and I can run both of my new fids, one from each end.

The search function is not bad

Fids for splicing dyneema

And

Welcome to the forum

Jonathan

Thank you.

I have some welding wire I will try.

 

[Gsailor]

Welcome to the forum.

Unless your 20 footer is a race boat, I doubt if any of the ropes need the expense of dyneema. Conventional ropes and bowlines sufficed for many decades on the boats, and remain the practical and cost effective route.
Clearly some enjoy playing with fancy ropes - our clothes airer is held up on spliced dyneema running through roller pulleys, but that was our son’s diversion when he had access to this stuff for free - but it is not really necessary on small boats. At 40 foot we have a lot of cruising dyneema for halyards etc.

Thank you.

Yes, I am just tinkering with dyneema.

I don't need it for line, sheets or halyards.

Maybe just soft shackles.

It has a nice feel to it.

 

[thinwater]

Welcome to the forum.

Unless your 20 footer is a race boat, I doubt if any of the ropes need the expense of dyneema. Conventional ropes and bowlines sufficed for many decades on the boats, and remain the practical and cost effective route.
Clearly some enjoy playing with fancy ropes - our clothes airer is held up on spliced dyneema running through roller pulleys, but that was our son’s diversion when he had access to this stuff for free - but it is not really necessary on small boats. At 40 foot we have a lot of cruising dyneema for halyards etc.

Often it has NOTHING to do with strength. Dyneema is very slippery, making it ideal for certain control lines. It slides better through grommets and low friction rings. Dinghies have many great applications for this reason.

But yes, there is a lot of "fashion" rigging out there.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Last time I checked, there was no rule to say that the most mundane of cruisers couldn’t save weight and windage, particularly aloft, with the strategic use of dyneema. Not to mention the ease and neatness of DIY splicing gives a nice, seamanlike look to the boat. Theres way more than mere fashion in using dyneema. Think laterally. Any piece of stainless or galvanised wire can be replaced, though I’m conservative enough to think that maybe standing rigging is best left as wire for most of us. But guard wires, halyards, any little strops, have a look around your boat and think how much cleaner, neater and safer things might be.

 

[Sandy]

Hello and Welcome

I'd be interested to know why you need dyneema?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Hello and Welcome

I'd be interested to know why you need dyneema?

I’d be interested to know why you don’t.

 

[Neeves]

I had my thread on fid as I wanted to make some dyneema soft shackles.

I confess I find some of the threads I have read on those that worship at the alter of soft shackles to be - 'I've got all these soft shackles - what can I use them for'. So many seem to have signed onto the religion and are making up uses - one was to tidy the power cable when on shore power = dyneema!...??

But I digress

I found making the soft shackles annoyingly addictive. Making them was so satisfying - and it got more satisfying as I got neater.

I then thought - I have these soft shackles - what can I use them for - I stopped making them with the previous frequency. They are a bit like low friction rings - where can we use them (forgetting we have spare blocks already without buying over priced (high profit margin) LFRs Have you seen how much, sorry how little LFRs cost on Aliexpress?)

We have dyneema halyards and sheets and the halyards that I have retired have become anchor rode . We have one shackle (stainless that failed) and have never been hit by a flailing shackle - I'm ambivalent. If we were commissioning a new yacht I'd specify soft shackles - but I'm not scrapping all our stainless shackles. I have a totally new and novel device, well its a variation on one of my themes and it seems ideal for soft shackles. I wanted a block, actually a LFR, that would turn any which way. I do have a weight fetish, hence our smaller HT chain and aluminium anchors - but would I notice if I retired all our stainless shackles....??

If I sailed, and was a contender, in a 20' sports yacht and the rules allowed it - I'd change all and everything to dyneema (and LFRs) - nothing to do with fashion - the only reason to race is to win and if you can shave off a couple of seconds (for not much outlay on a 20' yacht - I'd go for it. Been there, done that

Now I'm denying the rigours of age - I don't race any more - I just go fast for fun (something to do with senility perhaps

To the OP - go for it.

Jonathan

 

[Chiara’s slave]

LFRs, I wouldn’t change everything to them. Ronstan Orbit blocks for high load high movement areas have much less friction, the difference sometimes between hand and winch. We have LFR barber haulers, on dyneema strops. And that’s it. On our boat clearly having a dyneema fetish is fair enough, but having done it once, everything works so much better. I’d do it on any boat I owned. Our X is quite far down that road too.

 

[dunedin]

Often it has NOTHING to do with strength. Dyneema is very slippery, making it ideal for certain control lines. It slides better through grommets and low friction rings. Dinghies have many great applications for this reason.

But yes, there is a lot of "fashion" rigging out there.

Very familiar with dinghy and small race boat applications of dyneema - our dyneema washing rail line is made from offcuts from top flight international dinghy racing.
But in a cruising 20 footer, generally they don’t have the multi-cascade control systems that dinghies often use. And with halyards, sheets etc the controlling factor is usually not strength (which could be achieved by very thin dyneema) but manageability - with pulleys, cleats etc sized for thicker ropes, as are human hands.
Clearly one could replace s/s standing rigging etc with dyneema - but again likely to be much cheaper and effective to retain existing s/s kit, or to replace like for like.
We have a lot of expensive dyneema on a much bigger performance cruiser - but the loads are massively higher, the boat rig and fittings designed for dyneema, and the thinner dyneema lines still typically big enough to avoid wrecking hands

 

[thinwater]

So much negativism.

We moved on from wood, galvanized , and cotten where it made sense, but we still use them where they do make sense (interiors and reinforcments, anchors and chain, clothing). Dyneema is just one more material, no more expensive than polyester per unit strength, slippery, durable, non-stretch, and easy to work with. There are also applications where I dislike the stuff (too little stretch). Yes, you need to cover the handled portions for ergonomics and cleating.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

So much negativism.

We moved on from wood, galvanized , and cotten where it made sense, but we still use them where they do make sense (interiors and reinforcments, anchors and chain, clothing). Dyneema is just one more material, no more expensive than polyester per unit strength, slippery, durable, non-stretch, and easy to work with. There are also applications where I dislike the stuff (too little stretch). Yes, you need to cover the handled portions for ergonomics and cleating.

Exactly. Dyneema isn’t the right line for everything. It does extend the number of applications for rope/line, as a wire replacement, and it's non stretch is useful in various places. Just embrace it where it’s an advantage, and use something stretchier for warps and the like. What’s not to like?

 

[thinwater]

Exactly. Dyneema isn’t the right line for everything. It does extend the number of applications for rope/line, as a wire replacement, and it's non stretch is useful in various places. Just embrace it where it’s an advantage, and use something stretchier for warps and the like. What’s not to like?

Another reason these threads are popular is because Dyneema is new and we are all curious about what it is good for. We still prefer polyester for most things, but we don't need a thread to learn about that. Polyester is an old friend and we know it well already.

 

[zoidberg]

Please, what are best tools for splicing dyneema? Swedish fid or just a bent bit of smooth wire?

From my own practice, and guessing at the range of diameters you're most likely to use, I'd suggest a DIY copy of the D-splicer 'needle' and a couple of hollow knitting needles.

You may later splash out on a set of Selma hollow fids, as did I, then together with the other tools and bits you'll have collected ( special Dyneema scissors, Dyneema cord offcuts, waxed whipping twine, tape, sailmakers needles, odd lengths of anti-chafe tube.... ) you'll be well on your way to creating your very own 'Bosuns Bag'.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I use hollow fids, and heat shrink, and a chefs blowtorch, you can heat a blade for cutting with that.

 

[Sandy]

I’d be interested to know why you don’t.

Sorry, I am confused. Easy I know at my age.

The question was quite simple and I learn by asking question, a lot of my professional life was spent asking questions, some quite pointy ones.

I was wondering why the OP was keen to use Dyneema, was it, its strength, ease of use or some other reason that might be of use to everybody?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Well, all of those qualities are reasons why all of us could use it, even you. Does it matter if you’re 21 or 101? The inference behind ypur rather pointy question is that you don’t think he needs to. I read more, too. Perhaps I’m wrong, and it’s just internet English.

 

[zoidberg]

I'd point out to the OP 'Gsailor' that the stuff is damned hard to knot reliably. That's due, I am informed by some of the folk who manufacture it, to the 'slipperiness' of the surface.

Were I daft enough to want to go up a mast again, I would certainly NOT tie myself onto a Dyneema halyard.