Hello All, Can I Ask a Question...?

[smudge]

Hello All,

Ive just joined this forum and have a questions to ask, and hopefully someone will answer....

When I was in the Army I was lucky enough to be part of a crew on a Nicholson 55' which was sailing from Gosport to St. Petersburgh. As i was on the first leg I only went to on Willamshaven on the German coast, but I totally enjoyed my 7 days on board. As a novice I was very interested in doing my Competent Crew Course, but unfortunately my troop commander at the time would not let anyone go on a course unless it was a benefit to the troop, so he said no.

After this my posting changed, life moves on etc...until now.

My wife and I were talking the other day and she suggested that we should find a past-time that will involve our family. (we have 2 children boy-1, girl-3). I suggested sailing, and she didn't say no.

What I would like....( the dream!)... is to be able to own a boat, poss 21'ish with 4 berths so in a few years (when the kids are a bit older) we can go away along the cost for holidays and weekends.

Now the question, is it worthwhile going on a RYA level 1-2 etc dingy courses to get a background in sailing, or should we go start to Competent crew? It seems a bit of a waste to do the level 1 etc courses if I want to move into bigger boats, but then will it teach me the basics, or is it different from a dingy to a bigger boat?

Also can you buy a boat with any RYA qualifications? Just if I see a 'must buy' bargain I could get it and carry out any work etc?

Many thanks in advance and sorry about the length of the question.....

Regards

Rich

 

[25931]

You can never have too much experience - the more you learn the better your chances of enjoyment ( & survival ).
Don't buy a boat now with a view to the future,get some experience & buy a boat that suits your present need because you will want to change.
The only qualification required to buy & use a boat in UK waters is a finacial one.
Happy sailing,
Jim

 

[snooks]

If I were you, I'd get experience, do a comp crew, then a day skipper, if you could both do it somewhere hot and sunny all the better. Then I'd charter do a flotilla, again somewhere hot and sunny and not too windy...once you're both hooked you can then, and only then, both go sailing in the UK

I'm not saying sailing in the UK is always cold and wet, but it can be ....but if you can get the rest of your family enjoying it first in good weather, then the battle is over.

If you start trying to learn in this counrty and it blows a hooley and rains all week you'll be starting off on the backfoot and getting them onboard another yacht will be like pushing sand up a hill. They might never want to go sailing again.

So make it fun and warm and take it easy

 

[jonjo]

The best yachtsmen are ex. dinghy sailors, the sail handling instinct you develop controlling a dinghy will serve you well on a larger boat. So I would say clock up some dinghy hours now while your longer term yacht cruising plan takes shape.

Harmonious life for a family of 4 aboard a 21 footer in tidal waters is difficult to achieve, but there are intermediate options to explore e.g. fractional ownership of a larger boat or day sailing on a ballasted day boat or you might find the family like spending long summer days chilling out at a family oriented dinghy sailing club, something like the club at Rutland Water springs to mind.

 

[Evadne]

Given your questions and background I'd suggest trying to find a berth on a boat and go sailing, to get a feel for boat handling if you are not sure of your own ability. After all, whether you like steroetypes or not, a family boat will usually have a skipper called "Dad", and you sound like you're voluntering for the job.

This could be on a mate's boat, or with someone on the forums (just ask and you will get PMs), or going racing at a local sailing club.
After that, try and get the hang of the theory from a course or a book, this winter, then start looking for boats. Many of us learned in dinghies and moved to bigger boats when we could afford it, but if you start at <25 feet, you are in dinghy territory for ease of handling, without the danger of capsizing.

If you feel comfortable in a boat already, get one of your own and start learning with the family.
It doesn't need to be big or expensive, there are plenty of trailerable daysailors that are ideal for family days out. Not to mention loads of elderly 21 footers that you could pick up for a song, just ask around at the boatyards in your intended sailing area.

 

[Litotes]

The best yachtsmen are ex. dinghy sailors, the sail handling instinct you develop controlling a dinghy will serve you well on a larger boat. So I would say clock up some dinghy hours now while your longer term yacht cruising plan takes shape.

I agree. Everything learned in a dinghy is applicable to sailing bigger boats. I don't think the "competent crew" and "day skipper" courses really focus on actually teaching you to sail. They have more to do with handling gear, pilotage, tides etc. You will get far more out of them if you already know your basic sailing, boat handling, wind awareness etc. I sail with quite a few relative novices and I can really tell the difference between those who learned in dinghies and those who did not when it comes to sailing and boat handling. The dinghy sailors generally manage the boat with greater skill and confidence than those who learned sailing as an "incidental" to mastering all the other things they need to know.

The alternative is to join a racing crew for a while, which is a good training ground for sailing and, to some extent, boat handling (although the seamanship of some crews in other respects can be a bit iffy)

 

[emsworthy]

Get Out On the Water

Absolutely agree with all of the above advice. Generally speaking if you have the skill and wind awareness to sail a dinghy with any degree of efficiency then transferring this to a bigger boat is often just about common sense in many respects (the sheet loads are a bit greater mind you!).

I am in a very similar situation to you but a few years further down the line. I will sail anything that even remotely floats and has a bit of cloth in the air whereas SWMBO has done very little and could take it or leave it.

Following a week in Turkey with Neilson she now has RYA level 1 and talks about sailing more than I do sometimes! Just as well as we have just bought our first big boat, a Sadler 26. Currently refitting for launch next March

My kids are boy, 8 and girl, 5. (As I say a few years down the line.)

My advice would be get out sailing in anything anytime and buy something modest when the time feels right.

Tim

 

[jonjo]

The alternative is to join a racing crew for a while, which is a good training ground for sailing and, to some extent, boat handling (although the seamanship of some crews in other respects can be a bit iffy)

Agree with all that too, you learn so much when pushing a boat beyond its natural limit. During a broach many a cruising yachtsman will freeze like a frighten rabbit with the wheel hard over whereas a racing man will methodically release the traveler, dump the mainsheet and release the kicker to recover the situation.

To the OP I would add that from the outside it might seem that boat ownership is the natural route to going sailing but there are many alternatives particularly for an ex trooper who is presumably physically fit and agile. Entry standards are not particularly high for crewing positions on fleet tail enders competing in a weekend round the cans racing series.

Another point I forgot to make was don't waste your money on a commercial competent crew sailing course, the qualification is a low grade joke and the Army offshore sailing trip to Germany probably makes you over qualified for a competent crew course.

 

[ianat182]

Can I ask a question.......

Welcome to the forums. As you've already seen there is a wealth of sailing knowledge here. My 2p worth is for your family to join a sailing club where you can all learn to sail.
My own Club is a recognised RYA training centre for the youngsters,who go on to greater things when they become competent dinghy sailors. They are taught by qualified dinghy instructors for their various levels of skill.
As a family it is also cheaper to join a club rather than as individuals.
At this point there is no need to buy starter dinghies(assuming your children are less than 12 years old) the club have them for use.
For your wife and yourself the opportunity to casually/regularly crew on a dinghy, or a light 'sports-boat' gives the best of both worlds,dinghy handling and exciting sailing.
The main difference in going up to a small cruiser is the reaction speed needed much slower than a dinghy and rewarding by fine tuning sail setting and crew weight;the capsizing is largely non existent and the dinghy habits of tweaking are hard to stop- so don't.
As you become a 'yottie' the costs of your sailing will need to be assessed,depending on location,mooring/launching facilities and the annual maintenance costs .
If you reckon on about £1000 pa for a small cruiser,say a Pageant 23' or Sadler26' or Centaur 26' these are good basic entry level boats that will serve you well, and between £9K and £12K to buy- and that is a ball game on its own, Surveys brokers etc.
When you reach this stage there is plenty of conflicting advice, but all intended to be constructive. Make sure SWMBO is involved fully, do Dayskipper theory together-its fun and interesting! Above all enjoy it

ianat182

 

[MarkJohnson12345]

As an Ex Sapper, We did trips around bits of UK in a large ketch, can't remember her name now.

We visited N Irleland before (just) the troubles there, and ended up in Holy Loch.

Yes as said before, go straight to Day Skipper, though they expect a little experience.

Get on as many boats as you are able, before buying. Do all the courses, Radio, Diesel engines etc.

You are going to need a 26' at least for a family of 4. but that depends on what your aim is.

If cruising, go for as big as you can afford. If just day sailing, then maybe a 21' might do. But remember, if you get the bug, you should be looking for as big as you can get.

But please do the RYA courses, and get experience before you commit the family.....

Best of luck.

 

[arfa]

I agree with the other views that you should go straight for the day skipper - go for the practical and skip the classroom bit (one of the day skipper guidebooks will cover all of this perfectly adequately). This will then enable you to charter (but this is pricey on the south coast).
The only other advice I would pass on is to be very picky about the days you take out the family sticking with sunny days and light winds - a bad day on the water can set you back a long way in terms of family enthusiasm. I've been easing my lot in over the last three years and they actually look forward to a day on the water. However I still have not taken them out in testing conditions.
Best of luck with your new family hobby !

 

[arfa]

boat ownership

I forgot to mention that I went down the boat ownership route buying a 21ft beneteau which has brought alot of fun. not cheap to keep by any means but there is a huge convenience aspect to it. It does our family of four just fine for day sailing but not much else as it is a bit too cosy. However it is great for learning boat handling and is effectively a big dinghy which keeps you dry which has its virtues.
However if we wanted to spend more time afloat we would need a bigger boat but that time is not for a few years and chartering can fill the gap

 

[Seafort]

When I was in the Army

With children at 1 and 3yo it might be problematical trying the dinghy sailing (It is a good grounding though). Maybe an informal club, a picnic and watch Daddy then Mummy get wet.

I did meet a great bunch of ex army guys in Cowes a couple of years ago. They were with the armys disabled sailing program. Maybe there is a similar initiative that would suit you. Or you might be able to get some instruction as a volunteer helping them out.

Do get a working understanding of IRPCS (Rules of the road) and points of sail. Sailing is fairly easy, its the close quaters manouvering that gets most people. If you have a handy club or marina with a cafe or bar overlooking the pontoons, spend a Sunday afternoon watching (Builds confidence no end ) and there will be plenty of people to chat with and learn more than you will ever need from.

Finally, welcome and keep in touch.

Dave.

 

[gregandginas]

Whilst most of the advice on this thread strikes me as sound for someone... I'd just stress that what's right depends in large part on YOU. How do you like a steep learning curve? How do you feel about getting wet? How desperate are you to wrap your little ones in cotton wool?

If you are up for it... I'd just go for it: get on a Laser or windsurf to get the hang of sail-handling (with a mega organised club with racing if that's your cup of tea, or just on a local puddle if you like to be more independent)... or just get a small trailer sailor (like our Pandora) and be sensible about when and where you go to make your mistakes.

At the other extreme... if you aren't at all sure about that approach... I could see lots of sense in the advice to go for lots of theory, and lots of practical courses, and to work your way up to family cruising on a 30' boat.

I don't see that there's a right and wrong way, just very different ways that would suit different people.

 

[gavin_lacey]

A 21 ft boat is very capable of coastal cruising with a family of four if you accept the limitations. Luxury it aint. But a 21 ft boat is far more comfortable than a small tent and far drier when it is raining. My first boat was 21 ft, we cruised with 2 small children and logged over 1000 miles per year. Buying a boat with a good trailer would allow you in time to experience different cruising grounds and will save you a fortune in mooring and lift out fees. Get experience on other peoples boats if you can, then both of you should aim at day skipper. Theory courses (possibly evening classes) can be fun to do together. For most couples the practical courses are best done separately in my opinion.

 

[dunedin]

I would definitely recommend doing some dinghy sailing as well as the competent crew.

I have sailed with quite a few yachtmasters and budding yatchtmasters in larger boats. Whilst all of them understood the safety and navigation bits, and some had skills I could never aspire to, it was immediately apparent that some just didn't have any feel for the actual "sailing" bit (the finesse of sail sail trim and boat balance etc). I guessed immediately and confirmed later those who did not have the boat feel had not sailed much in dinghies.

One skill is not better than the other - but dinghy sailing and yacht competent crew are complementary rather than either /or choices.

Go for it and enjoy !

 

[smudge]

Thank you

Many thanks for your helpful answers, I sort of had an idea, but I just wanted to hear from the voice (voices) of experience first. What Ill look at doing is joining a club and do a bit of dingy sailing to get to know the basics prior to moving into something bigger, and as i live in Bristol, it a bit rude not to use the facilities we have in the floating harbour, where there are a few sailing clubs.

I will also look out in for 'crew members wanted' ads so i can get some experience in.

To Mark Johnson...I too am an ex-sapper, did 12 years, loved it, but it was time to move on. (although part of me missed it, so Ive just joined the RE TA!)

Again, many thanks and hopefully Ill be posting more items on this forum, who knows there may even be a pic of a future purchase..!!

Cheers all...