Heat exchanger and Oil cooler advice

Hi have to say.......Jesus Christ! You’ve just dropped £2k on a new intercooler insert. Just buy some Rydlyme! Appreciate some say it’s the same as brick cleaner apparently but why risk getting concentrations wrong etc....
 
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When I said 10% HCL by volume I didnt mean 10% brick acid in a 1:10 mix.

Your brick acid undiluted may be 10% by volume already. If its say 15% then mix in some water. About 2 litre brick acid to 1 of water. Do the math.
 
Andrew M said:
Great thread, I'm thinking of doing this on our D12s sometime through this year, either by circulating or remove and strip. Haven't worked out the best places to plumb into yet though to ensure full circulation, and I haven't worked out what the flow is to the CACs ?
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d12 is simple.

The heat exchanger has 2 anodes that are about 1 inch fittings.

One is at the bottom of the exchanger and the other at the top.

remove the anodes ( you need to do this anyway ). buy some fittings that fit in the anode holes and pump in at the bottom and the top one drains into a bucket.

there are some losses of acid as some will exit the exchanger but the stuff is cheap so it does not matter.

obviously this only cleans the exchanger and as others have said if it is fully clogged they will need rodding out
 
FARSCO said:
Hi have to say.......Jesus Christ! You’ve just dropped £2k on a new intercooler insert. Just buy some Rydlyme! Appreciate some say it’s the same as brick cleaner apparently but why risk getting concentrations wrong etc....
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The active ingredient in Rydlym is HCL. No mater what else they put into it, that is still the active ingredient that does the work. How is that so hard to comprehend?
 
It’s not and completely understand why you would choose to use cheap HCL. Products like Rydlyme are for the ordinary numpty like me so if we dont use it quite right......no drama!
 
Well I wouldnt be so sure on that either. I have heard people leaving it in for 24 hours to give it a good going over. HCL will leach copper from the brass and make it brittle and weak given half the chance. That is why I keep saying until the bubbles stop. Once that happens all the calcium deposits have turned to sludge and can be rinsed or rodded out. I also keep touting rod as first option. But if a tube is blocked half way down smacking it with a rod is liable to cause more damage. You need the rod to get in in the first instance and then you can abrade surface deposits away with the thread. Again in this instance 5mm threaded brass rod to fit the 5.5mm inner diameter tubes for his scenario.
 
jrudge said:
d12 is simple.

The heat exchanger has 2 anodes that are about 1 inch fittings.

One is at the bottom of the exchanger and the other at the top.

remove the anodes ( you need to do this anyway ). buy some fittings that fit in the anode holes and pump in at the bottom and the top one drains into a bucket.

there are some losses of acid as some will exit the exchanger but the stuff is cheap so it does not matter.

obviously this only cleans the exchanger and as others have said if it is fully clogged they will need rodding out
Click to expand...
Thanks, useful, I'm guessing I can also plumb the exit to the other end of the Gearbox oil cooler and clean that at the same time ? Got the workshop manual last night and worked out the CACs use coolant not Sea water so as coolant is healthy, hopefully, they shouldn't have any issues.
Thanks.
 
I’ve not had a chance to catch up on here as it’s the silly season for us guys.
I’m absolutely wetting myself reading these posts .
The DIY boys just don’t listen .
Do not use brick cleaner , I won’t get into the technical side of why all I will say is that it dissolves aluminium and solder of which for example the outer core of the cac is alloy , the tubes on both oil and intercooler are soldered to the base plates or round end caps, I’ve said this for years , Rydelime is the only safe de scaler to use .

So to summarise Jon , you bought a gallon of brick cleaner for £10 which destroyed a £1k tube stack , when you could have spent £50 on 5 litres of Rydelime .

Read this folks and learn, I’ve said this too many times now to keep repeating g myself , why people still keep debating the subject is beyond me.
I’m saying no more , just learn from this post.
 
Andrew M , if your cleaning your 2 sea water coolers make sure you employ the right people , you can’t clean the intercooler with Rydelime the same way as the hear exchanger and gear cooler , they are not connected in any way.
 
volvopaul said:
Andrew M , if your cleaning your 2 sea water coolers make sure you employ the right people , you can’t clean the intercooler with Rydelime the same way as the hear exchanger and gear cooler , they are not connected in any way.
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Thanks Paul , duly noted, I had her done with Rydlyme I think 2 years ago but don't know quite what they did (other than spill some on the saloon carpet and cover it with a door mat !) so am looking to make sure the HE and gearbox cooler are in good shape ,don't have a temp issue so it's preventative atm. And yes, only worked out last night that the intercooler is part of the coolant jacket system, if that's the correct term ? Thanks.
 
volvopaul said:
I’ve not had a chance to catch up on here as it’s the silly season for us guys.
I’m absolutely wetting myself reading these posts .
The DIY boys just don’t listen .
Do not use brick cleaner , I won’t get into the technical side of why all I will say is that it dissolves aluminium and solder of which for example the outer core of the cac is alloy , the tubes on both oil and intercooler are soldered to the base plates or round end caps, I’ve said this for years , Rydelime is the only safe de scaler to use .

So to summarise Jon , you bought a gallon of brick cleaner for £10 which destroyed a £1k tube stack , when you could have spent £50 on 5 litres of Rydelime .

Read this folks and learn, I’ve said this too many times now to keep repeating g myself , why people still keep debating the subject is beyond me.
I’m saying no more , just learn from this post.
Click to expand...

Enormous respect to you VP but....

So if Jon had dumped his intercooler into a bucket of Rydlyme he'd be safe. I very much doubt it see tech specs below.
You wont go into technical reasons why Rydlyme is safer - nor do the manufacturers.
Rydlym is diluted hydrocloric acid based with various added non toxic detergents too aid cleaning and be safe with potable water. Will it do a better job than straight diluted hydrochloric acid. Undoubtedly. Does it make it safer to use on the materials it will be in contact with? No, see tech sheet below.
Does HCL attack Pb Sn solder. HCL is an electrolyte so some plating can occur and it could use the Pb or Sn as a parent material. Is it a fast or violent reaction. No. If it did Rydlym would be just as harmful bearing in mind it has the same HCL concentrations as brick cleaner proposed.

As with everything the blind use of both products can be damaging and Rydlyme most certainly isn't idiot proof even if it gives the user some sort of comfort factor but without corroborating evidence in support it's hard to analyse your argument for validity as to why Rydlyme yes, brick cleaner no, other than you have always stood by your argument but I certainly have never seen you provide any evidence in support.
The Bostik Cementone spec sheet is posted earlier and is in the same concentration as Rydlyme and further more is used to clean metalic tools, also with a set of instructions to do so.

https://www.apexengineeringproducts.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/RYDLYME-SDS-112020.pdf
https://www.apexengineeringproducts...ds/2019/12/Rydlyme_Specifications_19JUN18.pdf


12. RYDLYME does not corrode, erode, attack, oxidize or have other deleterious affects on virtually any metal or materials commonly found in water systems such as:
COPPER BRASS BRONZE IRON RUBBER STEEL TITANIUM GLASS
or other materials found in heat exchangers, vacuum pumps, evaporators, condensers, and other water operated equipment when used as directed.


13. An exception to number 12 is that when using 100% concentrated (non-diluted) RYDLYME on magnesium, zinc, and/or aluminum, it could oxidize or pit. Furthermore, polished chrome and some alloys of stainless steel could become discolored. It is not recommended for use with concentrated solutions. The rule of thumb is that if the alloy is designed for use in a water system (aluminum engine block, aluminum mold, etc.), the alloy should be compatible with the RYDLYME solution. Otherwise, it is recommended that the RYDLYME be diluted 50% or more with water when cleaning.
 
volvopaul said:
I’ve not had a chance to catch up on here as it’s the silly season for us guys.
I’m absolutely wetting myself reading these posts .
The DIY boys just don’t listen .
Do not use brick cleaner , I won’t get into the technical side of why all I will say is that it dissolves aluminium and solder of which for example the outer core of the cac is alloy , the tubes on both oil and intercooler are soldered to the base plates or round end caps, I’ve said this for years , Rydelime is the only safe de scaler to use .

So to summarise Jon , you bought a gallon of brick cleaner for £10 which destroyed a £1k tube stack , when you could have spent £50 on 5 litres of Rydelime .

Read this folks and learn, I’ve said this too many times now to keep repeating g myself , why people still keep debating the subject is beyond me.
I’m saying no more , just learn from this post.
Click to expand...

I wholeheartedly agree with Volvo Paul, as I said at the start use Rydlyme not Brick cleaner.
If you compare a cooler stack that has been cleaned with Rydlyme it looks the same as a new one alongside it, One that has been cleaned with brick cleaner changes colour.

This is especially relevant of you flush the unit in situ, aluminium and HCL do not go well together.

At the age your unit is I would advise removing it from the engine opening up, examining carefully especially uinderneath as I explained on page 1 and cleaning the cooler stack, do not leave it overnight in Rydlyme or Brick cleaner, it does not need it.

Does anyone remember the guy on here who left a new aluminium prop overnight in brick cleaner?
 
Bandit said:
I wholeheartedly agree with Volvo Paul, as I said at the start use Rydlyme not Brick cleaner.
If you compare a cooler stack that has been cleaned with Rydlyme it looks the same as a new one alongside it, One that has been cleaned with brick cleaner changes colour.

This is especially relevant of you flush the unit in situ, aluminium and HCL do not go well together.
Click to expand...

You've tried both and compared?

You've put aluminium in Rydlyme?

Excellent, tell us more. (y)
 
I'm not seeing a scorched earth here. In fact I see much improvement and still a layer of deposits. Wildly harsh I am not seeing.
Before

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After

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Before

RLygpHe.jpg


After

wSTFpsS.jpg
 
Ridlyme has something in it that limits the acid damage of metals to an acceptable minimum.

Normal HCL even in similar concentrations ( Bruce’s point I think ) does not contain the additional additives .

Both dissolve scale / barnacles / shells etc that’s a given .

Your problem with repeated HCL ( none ridlyme vs ) is that you etch permanently the inside of the tubes .In none scientific terms turn a smooth polished factory finished surface into a rough surface .
This microscopic newly made Himalayan surface now scales up faster ........you arrive @ the very raised temp point quicker , that made you acid rinse it with HCL in the first place .......kinda in a vicious circle now unable to escape ......thinking JRudges predicament ?
This is over and above VPauls caution of potential solder dissolution.
As far as Ridlyme with Jon’s Al fines , its instructions do say try a small test area first if unsure .

So No if Jon had shelled out £50 for enough 1 KAD 300 AND followed the instructions ......he would be in a different position .

Ridlyme is safe , it’s additives protect against the etching of the stack tubes .......thats why Professionals use it .


So my advice to anyone reading this thread don’t use normal HCL In your coolers use Ridlyme.
 
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