Has your chartplotter ever broken down?

[westhinder]

Original Raymarine C-series used to go screen-stripy unreadable regularly, fixed several times by dismantling and reconnecting a ribbon cable inside. Eventually died completely, screen still working but not redaing chart card. Replaced with a Garmin. This died after about 3 years with water ingress. Garmin sold me a factory replacement at a discount. That died after under 2 years, again with water inside. Garmin then said "... model no longer supported". Fitted a B&G Vulcan, died after 2 years, just blank screen dead. B&G do not repair or replace once out of warranty. In a hurry bought a newer B&G Vulcan, still working.

So on 5th new plotter in 14 years, plus some outages whilst I fixed the old Raymarine.

This is a very unfortunate string of events. I probably shouldn’t say this, my Raymarine C-series is still working impeccably. It lives under the sprayhood when under way and is stowed inside when I leave the boat. I hope this isn’t going to bite me. ?

 

[Gary Fox]

The signal down here at the surface is pretty weak, so it’s easy to jam with a transmitter designed for the purpose. GPS denial is absolutely part of modern warfare.

Pete

How is the signal 'pretty weak at the surface'? Compared to where exactly? Where is the signal stronger?

 

[DownWest]

Friend was enjoying getting up to speed with his tablet based plotter. As we passed the breakwater, it quit. Not a problem, as I often sail the route, but not good for his confidence .

 

[lustyd]

So in a peacetime situation then, notice is given of excercises that involve gps denial? I've not sailed uk waters for a while so it sounds interesting as to how that is managed.

Not just denial. Because of the weak signal and/or dgps it’s trivial to introduce errors or change a position entirely. You just need to transmit an offset as DGPS or transmit a bunch of fake data at high power.

How is the signal 'pretty weak at the surface'? Compared to where exactly? Where is the signal stronger?

It’s weak because it come from a point source and covers a whole circle of the earth visible from that point. It also has to travel through a sometimes thick atmosphere. The power left at the surface is extremely weak and the devices to block it can be pocket sized and battery powered. If you think people freak out when there’s a drone near an airport try jamming GPS somewhere important. The banks used to rely on it for timekeeping but thankfully those days are over!

 

[prv]

So in a peacetime situation then, notice is given of excercises that involve gps denial? I've not sailed uk waters for a while so it sounds interesting as to how that is managed.

I've not encountered it myself because I sail in the central Channel - to minimise inconvenience I think they tend to do their GPS silly-buggers in remote bits of Scotland.

Pete

 

[prv]

How is the signal 'pretty weak at the surface'? Compared to where exactly? Where is the signal stronger?

Compared to up at the satellite which is transmitting it.

Pete

 

[Koeketiene]

I've not encountered it myself because I sail in the central Channel - to minimise inconvenience I think they tend to do their GPS silly-buggers in remote bits of Scotland.

Twice a year - exercise Joint Warrior.
The largest naval exercise in Europe.

Exercise Joint Warrior | Royal Navy

 

[Daedelus]

Main batteries died, more or less unnoticed, but suddenly the log started reading in kilometres/hour rather than knots (also unnoticed as the breeze increased a little at the time) and the GPS gave up in disgust and switched itself off. We were about 15 miles out heading for Weymouth and just kept going with estimated positions until crew revealed his phone had a GPS unit and turned it on. However, in the mist (did I say it was misty?) we eventually saw the tourist tower at the entrance to the harbour and more or less aimed for that.

Put the batteries on shore power charge overnight and they seemed ok, but replaced them when we got back to home port.

 

[Daydream believer]

Entering Ardglass my chart plotter cut out just as I went in to the harbour. Because I had been lazy in the fine weather, I had neither chart on deck nor Reeds or compass. Fortunately I slowed to 1.5 kts because I missed one of the leading poles & I hit a rock on the way in.
My lorenz plotter used to crash on regular basis & but generally I really only used it for AIS
When leaving Roscoff for St Peter Port it was foggy & I was watching for the ferry. I had it zoomed in & was motoring. I did not adjust it & set the autopilot for a rough course . The plot showed the boat next to the track. I did not realise that the plot had frozen & it was just a picture of a boat next to a track & was not moving along it & i was miles off course.
The fog started to clear & I saw something looked wrong, looked at a chart & realised that I was a couple of hundred yards from hitting some rocks. Re booting the plotter confirmed this. I turned it off & did a normal plot & went south of the Sept Isles instead of North & then NE to St PP. I eventually arrived in the mist at night having picked up weed in the prop south of the isles, which I towed all the way to the harbour entrance. Fortunately it came off & i was able to motor in.

 

[Bran]

Raymarine a67 brand new out of the box, failed to read any cards. Replaced FOC.

 

[Davy_S]

Not just denial. Because of the weak signal and/or dgps it’s trivial to introduce errors or change a position entirely. You just need to transmit an offset as DGPS or transmit a bunch of fake data at high power.

We used to use DGPS for wreck finding/fishing, the signal came from point Lynas, if two boats were searching close by, the signal was lost as soon as a paper fish finder was switched on, not lost completely, but way out, so i would imagine the signals are pretty easy to jam.

 

[rotrax]

Entering Ardglass my chart plotter cut out just as I went in to the harbour. Because I had been lazy in the fine weather, I had neither chart on deck nor Reeds or compass. Fortunately I slowed to 1.5 kts because I missed one of the leading poles & I hit a rock on the way in.
My lorenz plotter used to crash on regular basis & but generally I really only used it for AIS
When leaving Roscoff for St Peter Port it was foggy & I was watching for the ferry. I had it zoomed in & was motoring. I did not adjust it & set the autopilot for a rough course . The plot showed the boat next to the track. I did not realise that the plot had frozen & it was just a picture of a boat next to a track & was not moving along it & i was miles off course.
The fog started to clear & I saw something looked wrong, looked at a chart & realised that I was a couple of hundred yards from hitting some rocks. Re booting the plotter confirmed this. I turned it off & did a normal plot & went south of the Sept Isles instead of North & then NE to St PP. I eventually arrived in the mist at night having picked up weed in the prop south of the isles, which I towed all the way to the harbour entrance. Fortunately it came off & i was able to motor in.

Ardglass - a bad place to enter at night - the very bright lights of the Ice Plant ruin your night vision.

Also, between the Fishing Harbour and the Marina is a gap in the rocks marked by a road 'No Entry' sign. A very Irish answer!

Last time we were there you went down the channel to the Marina between green Starboard buoys and pink Port buoys.

Red paint fades badly in the sun...............................

 

[Iliade]

This list is long but not exhaustive:

- A couple of early Garmin handhelds.

- Two Garmin Geko handhelds where the battery contacts broke.

- An MLR handheld which just died

- Two Garmin 172s, both of which gave due warning by eating memory batteries,

- A Garmin 298S which failed without warning. The loss of the sounder element was almost as annoying but I was in home waters.

- Two Garmin GPSMAP60CSX handhelds, one of which was very obviously shaken to death by my old MD2B, the other one developed a leak and died. Both pretty well used.

My current 451S is definitely on its last legs - the sounder is intermittent, NMEA keeps stopping and it overheats in one top corner. But my old RoadAngel is still quietly running MemoryMap with admiralty charts behind me on the chart table and I have a 176C and emergency batteries under the VHF. The screen is washed out but it is still usable should the need arise.

 

[Daydream believer]

Ardglass - a bad place to enter at night - the very bright lights of the Ice Plant ruin your night vision.

Also, between the Fishing Harbour and the Marina is a gap in the rocks marked by a road 'No Entry' sign. A very Irish answer!

Last time we were there you went down the channel to the Marina between green Starboard buoys and pink Port buoys.

Red paint fades badly in the sun...............................

But for some reason they have an IALA buoy half way in, so change the system from poles to a buoy then back to poles. I was looking for poles.Saw the buoy at last minute, Could not clear it in time so went very close to it & it is plonked right on top of the rock not to one side of it.So I belted the rock.
A similar thing on the entry to Benodet, which I once entered in foul conditions. Went close to a buoy, so I had a start for bearing to the next buoy & next day saw that was well inside a rock & was high & dry at LW

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

Some years ago there was a bilge keel Legend being repaired at Foxs for serious keel damage. The boat was on a delivery trip from Ipswich Haven to Dartmouth when she heavily grounded on the Long Sand and needed a lifeboat rescue.
I was informed that the plotter had failed near Roughs but when rebooted seemed OK. Between Long Sand Head and Foulgers it failed again and before screen returned she was on the Sand. No back up! Where are we? Oh bother!

 

[rotrax]

But for some reason they have an IALA buoy half way in, so change the system from poles to a buoy then back to poles. I was looking for poles.Saw the buoy at last minute, Could not clear it in time so went very close to it & it is plonked right on top of the rock not to one side of it.So I belted the rock.
A similar thing on the entry to Benodet, which I once entered in foul conditions. Went close to a buoy, so I had a start for bearing to the next buoy & next day saw that was well inside a rock & was high & dry at LW

IIRC does the IALA Buoy not mark the separation of Fishing Harbour channel/Marina channel? At the end of the separating rocky reef perhaps.

The Marina buoys are not lit so a night entry, even though it was familiar in daylight was more than interesting!

Still a nice stopover - and the lobsters are delicous if you can get a fisherman to sell you a couple.................

 

[Koeketiene]

Well, going over previous posts, one or two possible conclusions can be drawn (IMHO):

1. There are a lot of unlucky boatowners around.
2. I'm never buying Raymarine or Garmin kit.

On my two last boats I had a Furuno plotter. Neither failed once in over 20 years of ownership.
Current boat came with a B&G plotter. Hasn't let me down yet and I hope it proves as reliable as the Furuno kit.

 

[Adios]

My last boat I bought around the Solent and it came with a chart plotter which I'd never had before. The seller said it had charts for the whole UK. Smashing I thought. Zoomed out from where I was and sure enough the whole UK. Great detail I thought as I came out of Langstone Harbour. Got to around Brighton I think it was and I fell of the end of the chart. The rest of the way to Norfolk all I had was a huge scale overview chart with almost no detail on it. Fab!

Fortunately I'm old school enough to have paper charts to get me there otherwise it would have been a lot of guesswork. And the plotter was still useful in the cockpit to keep a check I was on the track I'd made with the charts.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

On our old boat the 15 year old Lowrance GM3300 plotter used to fail due to poor connection on its couplers quite regularly, particular in bad bumpy weather and seemingly usually at night near rocky coastlines. Cleaning the copper pins helped but not for long. Oh it also had water ingress sometimes if cockpit mounted so screen misted up after a week of rain - we could dry it out at home on radiator but a PITA. Aerial failed also once. It was all getting annoying but then we sold the boat.

Our 10 year old Garmin on the newer boat used to freeze up and fail to display the depth about once a voyage often when passing over the shifting shallow as it didnt like depth of less than 2m so it used to hide instead (well actually it would default to 1.2m and lockup), and it also put the boat 50m inland in Dartmouth on several occasions. Aerial failed on that one as well 2 years ago. Piece of sh*t.

Newer Garmin excellent

 

[westhinder]

Well, going over previous posts, one or two possible conclusions can be drawn (IMHO):

1. There are a lot of unlucky boatowners around.
2. I'm never buying Raymarine or Garmin kit.

On my two last boats I had a Furuno plotter. Neither failed once in over 20 years of ownership.
Current boat came with a B&G plotter. Hasn't let me down yet and I hope it proves as reliable as the Furuno kit.

I must be one of the lucky ones (touch wood).
On your second point I wonder if it is simply a result of Raymarine and Garmin being sold most, hence having the largest share of the failures reported. Otherwise I must be twice lucky, as most of the original kit on board is Raymarine.