PCUK
Well-Known Member
Instead of GRP foam sandwich, it's epoxy steel sandwich.
Very well put!
Has anyone bought a dutch steel for sea use and loved it?
- Thread starter paul salliss
- Start date
Very well put!
oceanfroggie
Well-Known Member
Yes each have their own merits, but with grp is easy to repair cosmetic wear and tear. On the other hand hit a submerged object with a steel hull and its less likely to be holed (eg container, or rocky grounding inland). Steel is popular inland for D designs and one factor in this is it doesn't have to deal with salt water, and especially moist salty air. Look below inside even the most modern steel fishing trawlers and under the covers they are 'rust buckets'.
Robg71
Well-Known Member
I cant see why it should be a rust bucket if maintained correctly. With the correct paint system, and protection of correct anodes.
A modern steel trawler i would not expect dings, scratches etc and rust to be on there list of priorities..
A leisure boat i would...
A modern steel trawler i would not expect dings, scratches etc and rust to be on there list of priorities..
A leisure boat i would...
Halcyon Yachts
Well-Known Member
I have delivered a few Privateers - lovely boats!
Solid, safe and very comfortable...
This one went from Southampton to Monaco:
Pete
RobWales
Well-Known Member
Pete, thanks for sharing! cracking looking vessel and a nice vid, Rob.
tomcourtney
Well-Known Member
I have a Pedro 36 with twin Penta 62hp giving 8 knts. The hull had been largely replated before our purchase last November, Having been a coded welder on the rigs I am happy with the welding . I had the outer hull below the water line shotblasted and painted with 4 coats of 2 pack epoxy, a coat of primer and 2 coats of antifoul. Over the winter after cleaning the engines I'll be treating and painting the bilges. Hopefully keeping rust at bay for a while.
As for seagoing from our base in West London we took her through central London which was, though not quite 'Perfect Storm' conditions, surprisingly choppy. Then on to sea (well past Southend and that's on sea...) and up the Medway to Rochester. The other boats in our little convoy all remarked how well our Pedro cut through the water. Probably down to the weight of my wife's wardrobe.
The Dover Sea School has an almost identical Pedro with the same engines coded Class 2 (60 mls from a safe port) and it crosses the Channel in all weathers comfortably, they said it copes well with Force 6 conditions. Hope I never see it though.
So our planned trip to Crete via the French Canals, southern French coast, by road across northern Italy then down the Adriatic coast to Greece seems feasible, or does it....
As for seagoing from our base in West London we took her through central London which was, though not quite 'Perfect Storm' conditions, surprisingly choppy. Then on to sea (well past Southend and that's on sea...) and up the Medway to Rochester. The other boats in our little convoy all remarked how well our Pedro cut through the water. Probably down to the weight of my wife's wardrobe.
The Dover Sea School has an almost identical Pedro with the same engines coded Class 2 (60 mls from a safe port) and it crosses the Channel in all weathers comfortably, they said it copes well with Force 6 conditions. Hope I never see it though.
So our planned trip to Crete via the French Canals, southern French coast, by road across northern Italy then down the Adriatic coast to Greece seems feasible, or does it....
Shannoner
Well-Known Member
There is a guy who took a 33ft Steel Boat from the Upper Shannon, to the French Canals by sea. He wrote a book about the journey.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/DRIFTWOOD-Fr...=pd_sim_kinc_4
oceanfroggie
Well-Known Member
Yes indeed, Harry had an epic trip. A chap from our marina also cruised to the med via the French canals back a few years ago on a single engine Pedro. He also went the long way around Irelands SW coast. I think the only significant modification he made was to add extended range fuel tanks. He picked the right weather for the long exposed passages around to the Mizen and the long crossing to Lands end. The English channel was the easy bit.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Yes I would say that's perfectly feasible. Certainly once you get into the Adriatic, you can pick your way through the sheltered Dalmatian island chain almost as far as Corfu. We've seen quite a few Dutch steel hulled displacement cruisers in this area ourselves. In fact Linssen runs a charter operation there. However, have you checked the cost of transporting the boat across Italy? The cost of trucking any oversized load on Italian roads is prohibitively expensive due to the costs of obtaining the necessary permits. About 5yrs ago we were quoted about €10k for trucking our 46footer across Italy; needless to say we arranged to motor it by sea around the toe of Italy for a fraction of that cost. I wouldn't necessarily suggest that for you as there are some extended open sea passages to undertake. However it might be worth considering trucking your boat around Italy, loading, say, from La Rague in SoF (where a lot of trucks load/unload boats) and then routing through France, Germany, Austria and into Slovenia, offloading at somewhere like Portoroz. This would avoid Italy and Switzerland where as I understand it trucks are also charged for permits. It might be worth talking to http://www.vandewetering.nl or http://www.petersandmay.com to get their advice
tomcourtney
Well-Known Member
Shannoner -
The book arrived yesterday and we're looking forward to reading it and will be researching similarly themed books and blogs over the next 18 months or so. Apparently our Pedro measures up at 37' (& 1") and with the lower centre of gravity twin engines and some extra plating on the hull gives we don't seem to suffer from the rolling problem.
oceanfroggie -
That's encouraging, did he write a book or blog or is he a forum member?. Picking the right weather is essential and as we're retired time is not an issue. I think our 100 gal tank should be enough for any passages we will undertake but any other recommended mods will be considered...
Deleted User -
Our voyage is pencilled in to start in 2015 and it will probably be staged over a few years to make the most of the trip. Currently we're doing the boat up & to get experience' as it's our first boat, we're planning cross Channel hops next year. I also have my head full of navigation, boat mechanics & electrics so consequently the details of the trip are still sketchy and I will probably not plan, in anger, till later on next year. We spent a few days in La Spezia, quite a large port just south of Genoa, and thought it would be nice to revisit by sea and ship the boat from there. I don't really want to travel down the Italian west and up the east coasts to go south again down the, in my view, unmissable Adriatic. The costs you mentioned are a bit scary though so I will look into this aspect shortly as it could have a larger than envisaged effect on the trip. Thanks for the info.
My wife 'taking on ballast'
The book arrived yesterday and we're looking forward to reading it and will be researching similarly themed books and blogs over the next 18 months or so. Apparently our Pedro measures up at 37' (& 1") and with the lower centre of gravity twin engines and some extra plating on the hull gives we don't seem to suffer from the rolling problem.
oceanfroggie -
That's encouraging, did he write a book or blog or is he a forum member?. Picking the right weather is essential and as we're retired time is not an issue. I think our 100 gal tank should be enough for any passages we will undertake but any other recommended mods will be considered...
Deleted User -
Our voyage is pencilled in to start in 2015 and it will probably be staged over a few years to make the most of the trip. Currently we're doing the boat up & to get experience' as it's our first boat, we're planning cross Channel hops next year. I also have my head full of navigation, boat mechanics & electrics so consequently the details of the trip are still sketchy and I will probably not plan, in anger, till later on next year. We spent a few days in La Spezia, quite a large port just south of Genoa, and thought it would be nice to revisit by sea and ship the boat from there. I don't really want to travel down the Italian west and up the east coasts to go south again down the, in my view, unmissable Adriatic. The costs you mentioned are a bit scary though so I will look into this aspect shortly as it could have a larger than envisaged effect on the trip. Thanks for the info.
My wife 'taking on ballast'
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Ours too. We ended up with a boat in Croatia a bit by accident after several years in SoF, Spain and Balearics and I'm glad we did. Its a fabulous cruising area and we have no plans to move anywhere else
BartW
Well-Known Member
no plans to go more south next year ?
we're considering to go to Porto Montenegro next season (or part of the season)
but still "under consideration" as SOF is so much more conveniant logistically for us
to go there by car for the maintenance and rebuilding works, and flight options for short stay's...
rustybarge
Well-Known Member
Phew i'm glad you explained.
My next door neighbour has a single engined pedro type steel boat with 120hp diesel. I can guarantee you one thing, you definitely would not want to go out on the sea with it. It rolls 20 deg when someone steps onto the deck. In fact they've welded a couple of mini-bilge keels onto the hull to try and stop it rolling.........no difference that i can see.
As far as i am aware the Pedro is most definitely an inland waterway and protected estuary boat, because the beam us so narrow and the hamper weight so high up above the center of gravity.
Anyone who goes out to sea in an inland waterway boat should get a bravery medal!
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Geez M, that would make the road trip awfully longer.
Even assuming that the escort costs (which btw is the real reason for higher IT cost, the permit being just the paper confirming the arrangement) are completely avoidable along that route (but are they?), I would think that the MUCH longer time and distance is also bound to affect the transport costs, eventually.
A few thoughts:
1) check the actual cost of transport through IT. I'd ask these guys, to start with: www.tecnotrasporti.eu.
In fact, the escort is only mandatory when the load size is above some measures which I can't recall by heart, but they might not be exceeded with a Pedro 36.
2) IF the road transport around IT and CH would actually be a cheaper option, I suppose it would make more sense to cruise the French canals towards Strasbourg (rather than go all the way down to SoF), loading the boat on the truck directly from there, right along the German border. In fact, the truck should come back that far North also from SoF to avoid CH, anyway.
3) last but not least, there's the unquestionably better choice, assuming that anyone who owns a boat likes to cruise with her: SoF-Bonifacio Strait-Messina Strait-Crete. A fantastic route indeed, with so many beautiful places to see along the way, unless you are (and tomcourtney isn't, as I understand) in a hurry and can make the straight route just a bit longer, going along the W coast of Corsica, the E coast of Sardinia, and the N coast of Sicily.
This way, the longer leg of the passage would be from Messina Strait to Greece, 250NM or so IIRC.
Not something I would be thrilled to make in the middle of the winter, in a hurry and with a Pedro 36, I must admit.
But perfectly feasible in summer, taking your time and checking the forecasts.
Considering also that tomcourtney is planning to stage the trip over a few years, the latter would be my choice hands down.
And btw, I can guarantee that he would never regret having missed the "unmissable" Adriatic (which in any case he could cruise also later, whenever he would fancy heading north from Crete).
In fact, I spent a decade cruising the Adriatic, and while I enjoyed every minute of it, the Corsican and Sardinian coastline and waters are simply in another league, imho.
By googling for Cala Goloritze or Maddalena Archipelago, just to name a couple of the stunning places along that route, it's easy to get at least a rough idea of what I mean...
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Ah, I didn't say that! Yes, we're considering Porto Montenegro for a change of scenery, cheap fuel and because its close to Dubrovnik airport where we can fly all year round. But another interesting option has come up too. We are currently based at Marina Frapa just NW of Split. The company that owns this marina have published plans to build another marina in Dubrovnik which will be located in the existing commercial harbour on the north side of the city. This is much closer to the town itself than the existing ACI marina in Dubrovnik and we quite like the idea of this. However, being Croatia, you can bet that it will be years before the marina is open for business
tomcourtney
Well-Known Member
rustybarge -
I talked to Dover Sea school before my purchase and apparently they were agents for Pedro in the 80s and consulted with Pedro in the design of this model as they wanted an 'all weather' channel crosser for their business escorting Channel swimmers / rowers.
Twin bilge keels and the lower centre of gravity given with twin engines seems to minimise roll. My wife and I also, much to a few brokers distaste. did deck walk roll tests on all of the boats I considered over an 18 month coastal brokerage crawl.
Two other major players in the Dutch steel market's boats failed this roll test miserably, despite being new/almost new expensive boats. I won't name them for fear of upsetting forum members.
I'll know for sure next May / June when we do our first channel return hop though.
I talked to Dover Sea school before my purchase and apparently they were agents for Pedro in the 80s and consulted with Pedro in the design of this model as they wanted an 'all weather' channel crosser for their business escorting Channel swimmers / rowers.
Twin bilge keels and the lower centre of gravity given with twin engines seems to minimise roll. My wife and I also, much to a few brokers distaste. did deck walk roll tests on all of the boats I considered over an 18 month coastal brokerage crawl.
Two other major players in the Dutch steel market's boats failed this roll test miserably, despite being new/almost new expensive boats. I won't name them for fear of upsetting forum members.
I'll know for sure next May / June when we do our first channel return hop though.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
As you know my business ships oversized lumps of machinery out of Italy all the time and the costs are positively eyewatering now. Its not only the permits and escorts but also the cost of diesel. If the Italian govt is serious about stimulating the economy, perhaps it could start with liberalising the road transport regulations which, compared to the UK and much of the rest of Europe, are fantastically stupid.
With regard to your proposed route I'm not sure I'd want to be 'thrilled' by some of the open sea passages involved in an unstabilised d boat designed primarily for inland waterway passages. I'm sure it would be perfectly safe but potentially very uncomfortable
tomcourtney
Well-Known Member
MapisM -
"Messina Strait to Greece, 250NM"
Wouldn't dream of attempting this in one hop, 3 or 4 hops along the 'sole' of Italy in an 8 knt boat is much more sensible.
Also if I don't do the Adriatic on the way it wont get done, it's a 1200 or so nm trip to a starting point in say Slovenia from Crete ...
Googling your suggestions though and haven't ruled out going north up the eastern coast of Italy yet, though it's not my preferred option at the moment.
"Messina Strait to Greece, 250NM"
Wouldn't dream of attempting this in one hop, 3 or 4 hops along the 'sole' of Italy in an 8 knt boat is much more sensible.
Also if I don't do the Adriatic on the way it wont get done, it's a 1200 or so nm trip to a starting point in say Slovenia from Crete ...
Googling your suggestions though and haven't ruled out going north up the eastern coast of Italy yet, though it's not my preferred option at the moment.
rustybarge
Well-Known Member
Last edited:
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Yup, I see what you mean.
I didn't mention the option of heading NE after the Messina Strait, crossing the Adriatic in the narrow(ish) Otranto channel, rather than going straight to Greece from Messina, because even if the sea itself is beautiful also down there, neither the coastline nor the (very few) marinas are anything to write home about.
And I would have thought that 250NM should be well within the range of your boat anyway, or innit?
Besides, actually I'm not sure that your Pedro would be so much uncomfy in the open sea, compared to the very short and steep waves which are typical of the Adriatic, and which can indeed make any non-stabilized small(ish) boat roll awfully.
Anyway, for the records, if you would choose that route and cross the Adriatic at the Otranto channel, the longer leg which you could not avoid if from Villasimius in SE Sardinia to Trapani in Sicily, 150NM or so IIRC.
All the very best for your plan anyhow, either way it sounds like an epic journey.
And don't forget to post a report!
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