Hanse 531 quality?

[Rob_Webb]

Have admired Hanse's for a while and now considering 2 upgrade options:

1. 430e (2010 boat)
2. 531 (2004 boat)

But from research in last few days I'm now having reservations about quality of either. And here in NZ there is no 'main dealer' so buying older boats the opposite side of the world from the manufacturer means I'm on my own with any issues.

The 430e we've been looking at is cosmetically impressive but on closer inspection a number of worrying issues e.g. leaking hatches, loose pushpit, dropping roof linings etc. All of this can be fixed but it doesn't leave a good first impression for a potential next boat. Hence we've dropped this one.

The 531 is a bigger leap i.e. the potential 'boat for life' option and on the face of it also presents well. And I'm wondering if the build quality of the older and bigger Hanses is better?

But initial Google & ybw searches don't bode well.

As things stand I'm thinking a late 2000s Jeanneau in the mid 40ft range might be a better option in terms of overall quality for combination of NZ coastal family cruising plus occasional longer trip to the islands e.g. 1000nm / 1 week.

Any views welcome on which one you'd put your family on?

Thanks

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Talking to charter boat skipper here in Greece they do not have many good things to say about quality ,but are impressed by performance..

 

[Daydream believer]

May I suggest that you would get a better opinion on the " My Hanse" forum.
One tends to get genuine comments rather than ill informed ones on that forum because most forumites are actual owners

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I take the view, especially in boats of the 50 foot and over category that the price differential between the Hanses, Bavarias etc and "quality" boats of similar length can only be explained by build and fit out quality in other words you get what you pay for.

 

[rotrax]

Having some limited experience of NZ sailing conditions, mostly in the Wellington area, my choice if passage making would not be a spade rudder bolt on fin keel yacht.

Too many rocks and bars for my peace of mind!

If you got the tide wrong entering Mana keel damage or rudder damage would be easy.

Not much experience of other areas, Auckland and further North may be completely different.

Two years ago a yacht involved in a race to Christchurch from Wellie lost its rudder-a deep spade-on an uncharted rock. It was a one off racing boat and it was out of action for a long time and was very expensive.

Kiwi boats are built for the local conditions, Hanse yachts are not, but might be very suitable for your use.

The older ones I have been on dont appear to wear well if used hard, but have excellent performance. The interiors get tatty quickly and anything other than a white hull goes chalky.

Well, the three in our club have!

 

[dunedin]

I take the view, especially in boats of the 50 foot and over category that the price differential between the Hanses, Bavarias etc and "quality" boats of similar length can only be explained by build and fit out quality in other words you get what you pay for.

Not sure I would agree with that. As has been oft stated on here, the volume produced boats can often be to the same or better quality than low volume hand built boats, where the assembly is simply less efficient. And many of the bits that are attached - engine, spars, electronics are the often same basic bits in low volume and high volume.

But one area that can be differentiated is the engineering choices. For example, if you want a very robust galvanised metal steel subframe attaching the keel loom to an X-Yacht. If you want real attention to cruising detail and maintenance look to a Discovery or perhaps Amel.

Hanse look nice boats, albeit somewhat more plasticy interiors with big open spaces, compared to an HR/Amel/XC etc.
For a while there seemed to be a few losing rudders on blue water trips - not sure whether this was statistically valid but would want to compare the engineering choices in this area before committing one way or other.

 

[Daydream believer]

For a while there seemed to be a few losing rudders on blue water trips - not sure whether this was statistically valid but would want to compare the engineering choices in this area before committing one way or other.

Fact is that one can point to Halbergs with laminate failure. Oysters with structural failure ( 80 I think) Bennys with keel failure Hanse with rudder failure. ( not so sure it was a "few") If you take the proportion per boat built per annum I wonder if there is a great deal of difference in problems between manufacturers. It may be that we do not hear about them all.

But if one wants to play dogems on NZ rocks ( different post) then one cannot expect any to stay together except perhaps the odd steel yacht. I have seen a Grande Soliel covered in sheeting
When I looked to see why, it was because the lead bulb had become partially detached from the fin, presumably due to hitting something. You just cannot expect a modern yacht to survive heavy impact without some damage

 

[Spyro]

May I suggest that you would get a better opinion on the " My Hanse" forum.
One tends to get genuine comments rather than ill informed ones on that forum because most forumites are actual owners

I think owners might tend to play down quality issues where as you may get honest reviews from previous owners. We chartered a 2014 Hanse415 this year in Croatia. The boat performed very well under sail and engine. Accommodation fans fantastic but lacked storage space. The boat was in its third charter season and wasn't standing up well to the charter market and the guys doing the handover said the same. An owner would obviously look after one better. We found it a cheaply built with lots of veneer and sharp edges. Drawers fell out and caused damage elsewhere. Cushions with heavy wooden backings also slid off when heeled causing damage to the cheap veneer panels.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I take the view, especially in boats of the 50 foot and over category that the price differential between the Hanses, Bavarias etc and "quality" boats of similar length can only be explained by build and fit out quality in other words you get what you pay for.

Not sure I would agree with that. As has been oft stated on here, the volume produced boats can often be to the same or better quality than low volume hand built boats, where the assembly is simply less efficient. And many of the bits that are attached - engine, spars, electronics are the often same basic bits in low volume and high volume.

But one area that can be differentiated is the engineering choices. For example, if you want a very robust galvanised metal steel subframe attaching the keel loom to an X-Yacht. If you want real attention to cruising detail and maintenance look to a Discovery or perhaps Amel.

Hanse look nice boats, albeit somewhat more plasticy interiors with big open spaces, compared to an HR/Amel/XC etc.
For a while there seemed to be a few losing rudders on blue water trips - not sure whether this was statistically valid but would want to compare the engineering choices in this area before committing one way or other.

I think owners might tend to play down quality issues where as you may get honest reviews from previous owners. We chartered a 2014 Hanse415 this year in Croatia. The boat performed very well under sail and engine. Accommodation fans fantastic but lacked storage space. The boat was in its third charter season and wasn't standing up well to the charter market and the guys doing the handover said the same. An owner would obviously look after one better. We found it a cheaply built with lots of veneer and sharp edges. Drawers fell out and caused damage elsewhere. Cushions with heavy wooden backings also slid off when heeled causing damage to the cheap veneer panels.

I rest my case Milord.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I wonder what the reasons behind the OPs choice, style, price, accommodation or something else.

 

[ip485]

Not sure I would agree with that. As has been oft stated on here, the volume produced boats can often be to the same or better quality than low volume hand built boats, where the assembly is simply less efficient. And many of the bits that are attached - engine, spars, electronics are the often same basic bits in low volume and high volume.

I opted for a Island Packet, but looked at various other makes.

As the quote, I was surpised at how many parts on any yacht come from the same parts bin, be it an Oyster, Island Packet or Bavaria. However, that doesnt apply to everything. The more expensive builders do use "better" components. For example, the masts and rigging are remarkably different as is the cost. Also it is my impression where the same bin is used, if a pump can be chosen for example with a lower output to save cost, it will be. Not surprisingly the build quality of more expensive yachts may be a world apart, some justification for the extra cost. Finally volume produced yachts are often made in a component form even more so than smaller builders, so it is a real pitta if major items require replacement - fuel tanks for example.

As to having a local dealer, I dont think that would concern me too much. Once a yacht is out of warranty of course no one really gives a damn and you are on your own. Most components as we have said come from the same parts bins and that will be your best source, not the yacht mnaufacturer. Of course so far as yacht specific parts are concerned you do need to know what these are and whether they are likely to need replacing. On the IP for example I can barely think of anything that is IP specific and which is likely to require replacement.

I find the yacht specific forum are the best unbiased source of potential problems and issues. Read everything written there!

As to the family, I guess it all depends what purpose you intend to put the yacht to. I reckon all modern yachts, as long as you have thoroughly checked their integrity, will cope with much more than most crews. I aslo reckon that dedicated crusing yachts will do so with more style and feeling much less pressed if the going gets interesting. I chose the IP because barreling along in a F7 or F8 and the yacht feels as much as at home and as sea kindly as in a F4, it is just a totally different ride from most production yachts, but if you dont want need an all weather yacht, so what. I am however very much aware that anything will break, but I would like to think that something like an IP is just less likely to break!

 

[rotrax]

IIRC there were a couple of Island Packets for sale in Pahia.

Worth a look, even just for a quality comparison.

Our Previous IP, a 350, was often mistaken for a newish boat, despite being 16 years old when we sold her.

I echo the bit about Hanse yachts having lots of sharp edges-a danger at sea in rough conditions.

 

[bitbaltic]

May I suggest that you would get a better opinion on the " My Hanse" forum.
One tends to get genuine comments rather than ill informed ones on that forum because most forumites are actual owners

Far and away the best advice.

For a volume builder Hanse is very under-represented in this forum, the most active owners being myself and Sam (quoted). There are one or two others but we mostly own smaller older models. You will get a lot of hearsay and little experience of the boats here.

In general, a Hanse is a performance cruiser; they are all big-rigged and fast. I don’t think build quality generally is an issue but rudders are often weak point. I will say straight up that I would not go blue water in any Hanse that had not had its rudder unshipped and inspected or rebuilt to a better standard. That apart, no benjenbav equivalent will match an equivalent length Hanse for performance.

It depends much on what you want. If you are after assured family cruising, if you are relatively unsure about handling a big and powerful boat (forgive me but something of your post suggests this) then you may find a Hanse a better second or third cruising buy than a first option.

 

[Rob_Webb]

Thanks everyone. V interesting.

Response to a couple of points / Qs.

Brought up sailing in UK / Solent / Channel mostly family cruising (various Westerlies) plus some racing / Fastnet (Humphries).

Moved to NZ 12yrs ago to enjoy better lifestyle / sailing mostly cruising on my own kiwi 11m yacht (Lidgard) plus occasional offshore trip on OPBs (55 - 84ft range).

Most of my adult life sailing singlehanded but last few yrs have a wife & child (now 3yrs old) as 'crew'.

Kiwi boats historically superb (designed & built for local conditions) but tax changes killed of the kiwi boatbuilding industry about 20yrs ago (with exception of superyacht industry which is booming) result being the kiwi home-grown fleet is now ageing and if you're looking for a fresh, young and appealing boat for the family you are now drawn to the growing number of newer production imports (we now have agents for all the main brands that you get in Europe & US) so you can buy new or used, all be it in smaller numbers due to small scale of market.

Still in my 40s and active & able so no fear of a more powerful boat in the 40-50ft range but lots of fear of mission-critical components failing (like rudders)!

Vast majority of sailing will be family-friendly coastal cruising in 10-25kts wind but it's entirely possible that I could find myself doing the odd trip in 30-40kts coming home from Great Barrier island to Auckland (50nm) enjoying a fast downwind blow - as I've done MANY times in my existing Lidgard.

So I won't be going offshore racing or looking for tropical cyclones but out here the harbours are not 2-5nm apart (like the Solent) but 10-50nm so all trips are longer and potentially more exposed.

Looked at an IP44 a few weeks ago - agree it was an obviously different standard and would be a top choice if we were wanting to live aboard and set sail for the S Pac islands. But for Hauraki Gulf coastal cruising the family wants a more modern layout with open cockpit / transom / swim platform etc. The usual family cruising drawcards.

And we just want them the boat to last reasonably well not deteriorate depressingly quickly. Not bullet proof but not fragile either.

So pretty 'average' requirements I'd say?

 

[bitbaltic]

Then my concerns about experience certainly don’t apply. But do have a good look at the rudder on a Hanse especially if non-jefa. Many were no-name Polish outsourced and all those are questionable imho. Nothing else about a Hanse that should inherently worry you.

 

[ip485]

Looked at an IP44 a few weeks ago - agree it was an obviously different standard and would be a top choice if we were wanting to live aboard and set sail for the S Pac islands. But for Hauraki Gulf coastal cruising the family wants a more modern layout with open cockpit / transom / swim platform etc. The usual family cruising drawcards.

Just a thought, and I know I am biased, but when you come to use an Island Packet layout you might find it meets your needs better than you would imagine. The cockpit is safe and snuggly, but there is acres of deck space and lots of room inside which actually a family will appreciate. It will also take the knocks of a young family, which might just be inevitable and still look good. If the price is right it might tick the boxes, and you might find the sea kindly motion a bonus when you are the only one who wants to "work" the boat.

 

[dunedin]

When we chartered out of Auckland we hired a Bavaria. In practical terms a Bavaria would perhaps be ideal for your needs, cost effective but perhaps a bit more robust and very well proven.
Perhaps not quite as quick as some Hanse but much better sailor than the likes of an IP, but able to take a bit of weather when necessary

 

[rotrax]

I think the previous poster has it-a Bavaria might be the way to go.

At last years Southampton Boat Show I felt they were the best of the production high volume boats on offer.

Tranona of this parish has had good service from the brand.

 

[Tranona]

Hanses are probably the most difficult of the big 4 to comment upon from the perspective of build quality and durability as they have changed so much in the last 20 years from (as described earlier) picking up obsolete boats and building them cheaply in the old E Germany to now being a major mass producer with designs and facilities similar to the other 3 (including now owning the Dehler, Moody and Sealine brands).

They have always pitched their boats as "better" performers than the cruising ranges of the other 3. However the quality of build and fitout has varied from time to time and model to model. Some of the negatives have been the result of poor production facilities, particularly in the early 2000s and some because they have moved too quickly in adopting new developments. For example a spate of problems with large bonded in windows at one point.

They were the first of the big producers to go for the open style of accommodation in smaller boats, although the others are following, so they tend to look more modern. Not everybody likes this style and it can look rather cheap compared with the more conservative interiors of other brands.

As to the design and construction of the basic boat, not a lot different from the others. While there have been rudder issues, they do not seem to be systemic, but rather down to individual failures with little commonality. Most of the other gear they use is industry standard, although it is only recently that they have moved completely to Selden rigs. For a time they favoured T shaped keels - not a cruising sailor's preferred choice - but see they have now reverted to L shaped keels on some models.

From the way you describe your requirements a Hanse (or any other boat from the big 4) would suit - that is the market they aim at. It is however true that Hanses have not been that popular as a charter boat, which is the biggest single market for this type of boat. Operators will tell you that they do not seem to stand up as well as the others to constant use and that their apparent superior sailing performance is not really an advantage. They had a go at a charter version ( the Varantia) which was a simplified Hanse, but, but like attempts by Bavaria and Beneteau group to do the same, it seems to have been a flop.

As rotrax says I am a Bavaria fan, having owned one (a 37) as a charter boat and now a new one as a private boat. They do not perform as well as the Hanse, particularly the pre 2008 boats, but do seem to be well put together and easy to look after. I was tempted by a Hanse when I bought 2 years ago but the boat available then (the 325) was not a patch on the Bavaria for all sorts of reasons. Had its good points but not enough of them to overcome the poor cockpit layout, cramped interior and variable finish, That boat is now discontinued and its sort of replacement is much better (but significantly more expensive).

Whatever boat you buy of this type, one thing is certain and that is it will be easy to sail shorthanded compared with older boats of similar size. All the builders have put a lot of effort into making their boats accessible simply because the main markets are either charter boats or mature/ family sailors who don't want to be reliant on big crews, but still want the sailing capability and accommodation that comes with bigger boats.

Good luck with your search.

 

[Rob_Webb]

Thanks again for more great insights.

We looked at a Bav (Vision) recently and 2 snags for us one subjective one tangible. It felt slightly more plastic & veneer than some others but biggest problem was relatively low height of boom. Here in NZ the sun is off the scale in terms of UV burn and we have to sail with a Bimini up 24x7x365. I’m 6’2” and in order to make a Bimini high enough to clear my head it would snag the Bav 40 Vision’s boom.

The Hanses and Jeanneau have slightly more boom clearance.

I wanted the Hanse 2010 430e to work but even if I overcame the interior wear thing how I would know if its got the dodgy Polish rudder or the better Jefa?

All of which means I think we’re heading towards either a Jen DS42/43 and striking the Hanses off due to both less robust interior finish (by general consensus here and other sources) plus question marks over rudder.