handheld v fixed VHF

[kds]

Sailed with an ex army communications chap who used a handheld connected to a masthead arial. Thought it the only way to go for a small (20" to 30") yacht. I
am fitting out a new boat to launch when finished (April) and wondering what to get.
Experiences would be welcome .
Happy New Year.

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[Solitaire]

Fixed without question. handheld is fine short range stuff. Most handhelds have a 5w max power for tx against 25watts on a fixed set.

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[sea_hobbit]

Both (if you can afford it). That way when a crewmember is ashore you can communicate back to the yacht for a dinghy pick up etc. And, you've got a back up in case one doesn't work.
Happy New Year too.

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[bigmart]

If you read the terms of your VHF Licence this type of use for a Handheld is outside the terms of the license. If you want a radio for ship to shore personal use then buy a PMR.

Martin

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[billywilliams]

Re: handheld v fixed re bigmart

I think you will find that essential communications between ship & crew ashore is permitted via h/h vhf

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[Guest]

Not a bad idea ...... I have both fixed and HH ..... the idea of using the m'head antennae is a good one and will increase the HH to useable range for most yachts.

As to getting them ...... if you only do Solent or similar .... why go for all-singing / dancing expensive ? Secondhand non DSC set from someone who has upgraded and a HH ......

I have an old Raytheon fixed .... fine, I have Icom HH + Swiftech HH ..... to be honest can't see the point in paying the ICom price again !! Sorry to Icom ...... but the Swiftech does the job at half the price....... AND I have dropped it in water ..... washed out with fresh-water and then changed battery ..... still working 3 yrs later..... (OK I am very lucky)



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[Guest]

How many yachts need full 25W power on a VHF ?

It is a pity that most yachts don't swap down to 1W on the fixed set when full is not needed - then we wouldn't have to listen to so much clap-trap ......

5W on a HH is enough for most uses ....... I use my HH far more than the fixed set ...... and that is communications from one end of solent to the other ....

Funny thing is ..... most advocate a HH for emergency use, OK as a grab-bag item - but that is when the 25W is really needed ......


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
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/forums/images/icons/cool.gif<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by nigel_luther on 29/12/2003 12:57 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[bigmart]

Re: handheld v fixed re bigmart

I suppose it depends on whether you consider "Ok Darling I've broken your credit card. Come & get me." is an essential communication.

Martin

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[Solitaire]

I accept that I watt is suffiencent in most situatinos and that people over use VHF on full power. However that is not the issue. The guy aseked should he have a handheld or a fixed set. He is kitting out a boat and asked the question> I would still say go for the fixed set first. You don't know what distances he is travelling - the range of a handheld is about 5 miles but can be more depending on conditions. A fixed set has a great range. Yes, there is a lot of claptrap on VHF mainly on the working channels - and I think fisherman are the worst!



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[JonBrooks]

Could not agree more.
Both in an ideal world is good.The RIB I use carries both.

What many do not consider is "LOSS"
If you conect an ext antenna to a hand held you get loss in the cable and the conectors.
If memory serves, average cable will give you 1db loss for every 10m of cable.
Also each conector, depending on quality, is 0.5-1db loss.
3db loss effectively halfs your power.
Whilst you will get a maked improvment in the incoming signals your out going will only be improved slightly.
A hand held on the deck will on average give you 7-10 miles
A hand held on an ext antenna 10-15miles.
A fixed radio 25-30 miles plus.

These figures are only rule of thumb as a guide but will give you an indication.

Would like to clear one thing up, and this is the fault of many, maybe even us.
A large number of dealers/chandlers are guilty of this too.
We are trying to educate them.

Its the use of term PMR when referring to the "cheap" licence free radio's.

They are in fact PMR446 radio's.

PMR is the generic term for anything to do with land based Private Business Radio.
PMR446 is part of PMR.
Like DSC is a small part of GMDSS.

It can lead to a bit of confusion.
Especially if you call a radio manufacture, who make all kind's of radio, and ask for detail's on "PMR" you will end up with info about radio's for taxi's, security guards, police, fire and ambulance etc and not the licence free radio that you are after.

Right will get off my soap box

Best regards


<hr width=100% size=1>Jon Brooks Icom UK Ltd. 01227 741741

 

[sailorman]

u missed the chaps point!.
he connected it to his m/hd antenna therefore greater range than the original antenna.

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[sailorman]

u missed the chaps point!.
he connected it to his m/hd antenna therefore greater range than the original antenna.
i carry an adaptor as a back-up to convert my navico axis for mast hd use

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[Solitaire]

Sorry! I don't think I did. The chap said he'd sailed with a guy who had done the HH attatched to a external antenna bit and it was his view that was being quoted.

The poster' question was "I
am fitting out a new boat to launch when finished (April) and wondering what to get.
Experiences would be welcome ."

And yes it would have greater range just because the antenna is higher and VHF is line of site. The same radio fitted to a powerboat and to a yacht's mast will have a greater "range" on the yacht than the powerboats with only say a 2 metre antenna.




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[StephenSails]

This might be a cheap and flexible solution if you are just bobbing your way round the Solent or some thing like that, but I would recommend that you look at getting a DSC fixed VHF and then down the line get a handheld if you really need one. A fixed DSC VHF will have more power output , less likely to get broken and runs of the ships batteries so is more reliable. Also by having DSC you will be able to communicate a distress/emergency to the coastguard in a lot more efficient way and other DSC stations will be alerted to your emergency. To get a good handheld your probably looking at the ICOMs at about £160 ish and good fived DSC Vhf is probably going to be about £200 ish depending on what model etc..

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[Omatako]

As said in other threads, matter of opinion. I have an old Uniden (no fancy DSC stuff) mounted in the nav station and a new Uniden hand held. I find I use the hand held more because I normally prefer to be on deck while talking to or about other boats.
I also make the point made elsewhere in this forum that it is a great idea to have another antenna for your mounted radio stuck somewhere other than your M/H so that if your mast comes down you don't entirely lose you comms. That's probably when you'll need them most!
When at sea and away from port control and frequent radio use, I put my HH into the grab bag. Problem I have is I haven't yet had the courage to ask the price of a spare battery!!

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[coco]

To kds,

I have fitted out a 23' sailing yacht 3 years ago with the following equipment:
-first year a Simrad HD52 with a masthead antenna and low loss coax. Worked quite well even over greater distances (was able to talk to Monaco Radio from Porquerolles without a hitch). I know this is quite an expensive HH, but it is one of the very best around, especially regarding receiver sensitivity and robustness. Drawback of such a setup: arrange the coax wire so that you can pick-up the set and changing the coax to the rubber antenna for use in the cockpit (the rubber antenna had a habit of always disappearing when needed!).
-second year bought a Sailor A1 DSC set. The reason for such a fancy set was its construction of separate black box and handset. The blackbox fits nicely in a hidden place and the handset does not take up much space. As an added bonus, the Sailor is, in my opinion, an extremely good and well constructed unit. The Sailor being a DSC set, I had to add a fixed GPS and interface it to the VHF. And then I just did the same for the HH, which is now in its charging cradle (including position information from the GPS - Garmin 160 - ), ready to be grabbed from the cockpit, and to be used as a DSC class F set with a current position, if needed. Actually things were a lot more complicated than that, since the Simrad HH would accept only symetrical NMEA signaling, so had to buy a buffer/amplifier/etc. as well. I am now extremely happy with the set-up. I have a very flexible line of comm tools, each component suited for very different situations, and the range is stunning at 25W with the Sailor A1.
-Cost: first year about 400 quid, second year another 1300 for VHF, GPS, buffer. Yes it was expensive... but then this is my beloved toy...

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[Guest]

Agreed that the fixed set is probably best as first item. Greater power and range. Allied with a second antennae on stern rail or actually on a bull-clip that you can put anywhere you want ..... very good.

If the sailing is basically around such as Solent casual stuff ..... the HH can in fact be an idea ..... as it is portable, can be got cheaper than a fixed set and I disagree with 5 mile range ...... we use HH all the time in my work and we get far more range than that ......

So initially I go for fixed, but then add a serious look at what you want to do, where you use it, what you need ......

Both have serious advantages over each other making the question very hard to answer.


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
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