Hamble river escape

[rodper]

Hi. Got recommended to post here.

Just bought a sailboat in Bursledon. Planning on picking it up in the end of May and sail home to Sweden. I have 4 weeks to do the trip and I see it as a vacation.
So i can take my time and go when the conditions allow. We will be 2-3 people on board all the time. Well equipped and modern navigation in a safe Hallberg Rassy. So far so good.

BUT, since i´m from Sweden and we have no tides at all, this will be my first encounter with water going up and down. I have studied it, taking courses, downloaded tidal apps, reading forums, etc.
The seller tells me: -You will be fine, i´ll show you what you need to know.
Actually i trust him. I think i will learn this, at least theoretically

So what i need is practically advice from you guys and gals. I just want to get out of the river as fast as possible to get to more open waters where i dont need to worry so much about currents.
Bin reading in some forums about people having problem on the hamble river.

Do not need silly comments or stupid jokes, just serious advice to a first timer i tides
:ambivalence:

Thanks in advance.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

It all depends on how the boat is moored. Leaving at high water might make it simplest, but a bit of current with or against you can sometimes be a big help in a tight marina space.

Otherwise it might be an advantage to travel the upper part of the river against the current for a first time because you won't get the feeling of being 'swept' into fixed objects.

 

[ithet]

I think you need to be more concerned about tidal streams through the Solent and along the coast. Going east you should be looking at leaving the Hamble shortly before low tide.

 

[Seajet]

Top Tip;

in tidal waters boats on swinging moorings always face into the tide, not the wind ( unless it's Force 8+ ) so always approach a mooring or pontoon in the same direction the boats are pointing.

At pontoons though there are often reverse back eddies so when close alongside look at the little bubbles in the water - they're always there and show the local current.

In areas of strong tides use the current like a ' conveyor belt ' and always time to go with it; that way one can cover miraculous distances in short times, or go nowhere for 6 hours if getting it wrong !

Don't underestimate how lumpy or even dangerous strong wind against tide can be, for example around the Channel Islands a general rule of thumb is ' if wind over tide add allowance for 1 or 2 more forces on the Beaufort Scale '.

The worst problem on the Hamble though is holiday traffic, for visibilty's sake I wouldn't set the foresail until well into the Solent.

Have a Great Trip ! :encouragement:

 

[jonic]

I keep my own boat on the Hamble as well as customer's and I always try and leave at slack water - pref high tide.

You'll be fine, keep to the well marked channels and be aware that at the top of the river it can run surprisingly fast - especially on the bends.

I always enjoy the run down the river, it's a good way to ease into the trip.

Have a good voyage home. :encouragement:

 

[steveeasy]

It all depends on where your boat is. My boat is at Bursledon and I tend to leave either on slack water or on high tide. The Hamble is nothing to be worried about other than previously stated the rush of boats probably dependant on sunshine. Ive not had the pleasure as yet of the Hamble Scramble but I bet a sunny Saturday morning in April will bring every boat out. Joy.

Steveeasy

 

[doug748]

I would:
Take the seller up on his offer of some simple close quarters tuition.
Get the boat out of the marina the day before setting off - onto a midstream mooring.

Just like a river:
Going upstream everything is under control and things happen slowly.
Going downstream things happen quickly and you can lose control if you try to stop - always look what is coming up 50 and 100 metres ahead.

I am sure you will be fine, have a great trip.

 

[BabySharkDooDooDooDooDoo]

Top Tip;

in tidal waters boats on swinging moorings always face into the tide, not the wind ( unless it's Force 8+ ) so always approach a mooring or pontoon in the same direction the boats are pointing.

At pontoons though there are often reverse back eddies so when close alongside look at the little bubbles in the water - they're always there and show the local current.

In areas of strong tides use the current like a ' conveyor belt ' and always time to go with it; that way one can cover miraculous distances in short times, or go nowhere for 6 hours if getting it wrong !

Don't underestimate how lumpy or even dangerous strong wind against tide can be, for example around the Channel Islands a general rule of thumb is ' if wind over tide add allowance for 1 or 2 more forces on the Beaufort Scale '.

The worst problem on the Hamble though is holiday traffic, for visibilty's sake I wouldn't set the foresail until well into the Solent.

Have a Great Trip ! :encouragement:

Not many swinging mooring on the Hamble

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?442719-Using-boats-on-moorings-to-assess-tidal-streams&highlight=

 

[Bru]

As others have said, getting out of the river is the least of your "worries". You really need to work the tides all along the South Coast unless you're planning on a non-stop passage. Given a firm start date and an idea of where or indeed whether you want to stop along the coast I'd be happy to spin up the optimum passage times 'cos I've got the routes permanently set up in my passage planning software

 

[superheat6k]

The flow of water is mostly only up to 1-2 knots apart from the Spring ebb when it can reach 4 or more knots in places. This is because the double high water means the ebb only has 2.5 hours to get from HW to LW. Otherwise the river is placid, and not quite white water rafting. Springs on the Hamble coincide with the first HW 12 Noon to 2 PM. Although it is a secondary port there is not much difference on the standard port of Portsmouth for primary (first) HW and LW times, although Southampton tables better reflect the double HW on Springs.

 

[chrishscorp]

I would:
Take the seller up on his offer of some simple close quarters tuition.
Get the boat out of the marina the day before setting off - onto a midstream mooring.

Just like a river:
Going upstream everything is under control and things happen slowly.
Going downstream things happen quickly and you can lose control if you try to stop - always look what is coming up 50 and 100 metres ahead.

I am sure you will be fine, have a great trip.

+1

Have a safe trip home

 

[Babylon]

The tide (stream in a river) can be your friend or your foe, its all in the timing. So time your departure for when the tide will be running under your bow, rather than under your stern if you're not used to the boat and the location. If there is a wind blowing and pinning you to the dock or pontoon, then tide can be used to advantage - it depends on the dynamics of the situation and which is the dominant force.

Consider also what tide you'll be wanting several hours afterwards in open water - a fair tide helping you along, or a foul tide hindering you? - and compute backwards what the tide will be doing earlier up the river when you depart. If this won't be right for getting off, then consider turning the boat around at the previous slack water, or re-position yourself further downstream towards the mouth of the river the night before (there are plenty of visitor's pontoons available from the harbour master).

In fact a building ebb tide in the Hamble will become a strong or very strong ebb tide pulling you west in the Solent. As I assume you'll be wanting to head out to the east, then either position yourself downriver previously, or head down the river on the last of the ebb and take advantage of the first of the flood to help carry you east.

Finally (although I'm sure you're already aware of this), a strong wind against tide (especially at spring tides) can kick up a real chop, more so in shallow water, so consider the weather forecast for both the Solent and the Channel, and try to time your passage so that proximity to hazards like headlands and tidal races both take advantage of a fair tide and avoid strong wind-over-tide.

 

[eigerwand]

Tides add three extra things to sailing that could impact your day in a bad way

1) the risk of being swept on to something that is fixed to the seabed. This is only really a problem when mooring/leaving a berth and the tide is running quickly. So if you start from a finger berth in a Marina at the top of the Hamble, you reverse out into the aisle with the tide running strongly against you, pause for a moment and then slowly go forwards to turn you may find that there isn't space left to complete the turn and you end up pinned against the boats down tide. In those circumstances reverse all the way out of the aisle or wait for the tide to ease a little. If you are starting from alongside a pontoon in the river, the wind is blowing you on and you set off with the tide running with you then you will not have steerage until you are travelling faster than the tide. If there is a boat in front that can be an issue. In those circumstances try and leave against the tide by reversing, if that isn't possible use a spring line (or bow thruster) to get the bow out before you set off. Once you are under way the tide is not an issue - all the other boats are moving with the tide exactly the same as you - be slightly aware though when sailing in the solent that your track over the ground may take you towards a buoy even though you aren't pointing directly at it.

2) The risk of running aground because you haven't read the pilot book. This isn't an issue in the Hamble but there are other marinas on the south coast e,g in Chicester that cannot be accessed near low water - check your pilot book for any such tidal constraints . If you anchor then you also need to consider whether there will be sufficient water to float at low water by doing a calculation.

3) Taking longer than expected to get anywhere - as mentioned by other posters try and use the tide direction to your benefit. If you are travelling at 6 knots, a 1.5kt tide with you gives you 7.5 knots over the ground, if the tide is against its 4.5knots. You don't have to treat this as a hard rule - you will see lots of other boats travelling against the tide.

 

[RobbieW]

Once out of the Hamble, its possible with good timing and boat speed of 6-7 knots to carry the tide all the way from Chichester to Ramsgate - worth doing doing especially on springs. Cherbourg -4 to -3 looks about right at the Looe Channel.

 

[zoidberg]

Hello, 'rodper'. Focusing on what you've asked....

The finger-berths at both the major marinas at Bursledon - Universal and Swanwick - are tight. Quite often, when one considers moving at 'Top of the Tide', there are still currents and swirls running through those pontoons in not-very-predictable ways. Having moved sailboats into and out of there a good few times over the years, I have seen others badly caught out by these stray swirls and get pushed sideways-on into adjacent boats. Not a good way to start!

You're quite right to have identified a potential problem, and to seek a 'prevention'. Those who work there are well used to these vagaries, and are scarcely aware of them, of course.

My recommendation to you, to answer your question, is that you insist via the Yard Manager that the boatyard's people position your new boat on an outside hammerhead/pontoon, before you wish to leave. That would take them no more than 10 minutes. It's not a matter of pride - it's their job. And it is far better they avoid a gouged gelcoat and a bent bow pulpit, with an insurance claim, right at the start of your holiday.

Further downstream, there is probable traffic-congestion to negotiate, so keep your distance, keep anticipating fools, and keep your fenders out. At the bottom of the river, you should have no issues, as the channel is clearly marked. Again, anticipate fools coming the other way.

After that, you're on your way, with other questions..... and answers.

Have a good trip!

 

[ianat182]

As previously mentioned the only problem area on the Hamble River is the cross currents in the Premier Marina and on river berthing moorings opposite.
Make sure that fenders are positioned on both sides of your boat and spare mooring warps are handy at the bow. Note the direction of current and work out what side your type of Propeller wash works (does it push your stern onto or off the marina berth when in gear ) - this can make a lot of difference to the way you Leave/Arrive at your berth.

The last of the outgoing tide will be favourable for your departure, but you will take about 40-45 minutes to reach the end of the river at HAMBLE POINT BUOY. Keep to the Starboard side of the channel all the way up the river.Be aware of the many yachts leaving other marinas on the journey up the Hamble.
Many departing yachts decide to hoist sails at this position then proceeding to the East thereby catching the first of the Westerly incoming tide; from here on there are only navigational problems for about 6 hours when the tide changes. If the weather turns nasty avoid the Chichester entrance and sandbar area and consider back-tracking to Osborne Bay and anchor. Use the Portsmouth tide tables for local information, and study the charts . Presumably the crew will be aboard the boat from the start otherwise there are pickup pontoons at Hamble and at Warsash at the Harbourmaster's jetties.

Good trip!

ian

 

[dunedin]

Consult the broker and/or previous owner for local knowledge to assist in getting off the marina berth, in an unfamiliar boat. And consult a tide atlas to know roughly which way the tides are going on your journey.
Then relax and enjoy the trip. (Its hardly an area of rip tides like Morbihan or Corryvreckan)

 

[TallBuoy]

For one day of professional training, you could learn everything you need to know about the tides all the way to the North Sea and assistance to get out of the Hamble by somebody who knows the area well.

 

[MikeH99]

A few thoughts supplemental to what has already been posted. The Solent is a long way from Sweden and it would be a shame to miss a lovely area. How about a couple of days visiting Bucklers Hard, Yarmouth, Cowes and Portsmouth. Get to know the boat a bit better before setting off on the long legs. Portsmouth would be a good jumping off point and as others have said, if you get your timings right, you can carry favourable tide right up to the Dover area. When we did the trip to the Baltic we did the leg Hamble to Den Helder in one shot (40 hours, 50 foot boat). Once you get up to the Dover area the tides become less impactful.
You have all the fun of the Traffic Separation Zones to deal with but with AIS it becomes relatively trivial. Lots of traffic in and out of Europoort but again AIS is your guide.
Assuming you will be taking the Kiel Canal, the only other tidal consideration is arriving at the entrance to the Scheldt at around low tide. I have to confess, when we did this trip the boat was new to me and I underestimated the speed for passage planning. We arrived from Den Helder at completely the wrong time, the start of the near spring ebb with an on shore F4. This is supposed to be a recipe for a really rough entrance but we actually found it ok. Not advised though.
It seems to me that you could do with borrowing some charts, tide tables and pilot books for one time use if the previous owner is not leaving them on the boat. I think I have most of them but am not at home until mid April. Would be happy to lend them to you if the timing suits but I am sure others can help if not.
Congrats on your new boat and Sweden makes a lovely cruising area. As you are aware there are two types of Swedish sailor. Those who have hit a rock and those who are going to!

 

[KellysEye]

Leave at high tide when the tide starts to go out then you will have the tide behind you. On passage you will be going up tide, slow, and down tide, fast, so the average speed is normal hull speed if the wind is enough.