Halyard wrap ~ best solution Selden fractional rig?

[StevieD]

I has to change headsail 3 weeks ago due to uv damage on the furled headsail on a new to me boat, and have had issues ever since with halyard wrap. I've experimented with 2 headsails that predate the current rig, but are in good condition, and with forestay, halyard and back stay tension all without any major success.

It's on a recent selden mast and 200 series furlex rolling reefing system on a fractional rigged Beneteau 35s5.

Is a plain old diveter fairlead or a donut or wheel the best practise with least installation hassle until the end of the season?

Thanks

 

[Praxinoscope]

It sounds to me more like a problem with the 'halyard swivel' I'm guessing you have had a really good look at this, but it may just be that when its under tension it isn't turning freely?
I have never been a great fan of 'least installation hassle' so not sure if the options you are wondering about will suit for the rest if the season.

 

[StevieD]

Apologies trying to upload an image!

 

[StevieD]

Apologies trying to upload an image!

 

[AntarcticPilot]

You need a halyard diverter.

Added explanation - the halliard in your photo is almost parallel to the stay. In that case, it can't stop the top swivel from rotating, resulting in a halliard wrap. A diverter will change the angel of the halliard with respect to the stay so that tension in the halliard will stop the top swivel from rotating.

 

[StevieD]

It sounds to me more like a problem with the 'halyard swivel' I'm guessing you have had a really good look at this, but it may just be that when its under tension it isn't turning freely?
I have never been a great fan of 'least installation hassle' so not sure if the options you are wondering about will suit for the rest if the season.

Yes potentially, but it is fairly fresh with not much play in the bearings, I'm waiting on silicon waterproof grease to arrive to lube both top and bottom up before trying again. Yes it's only when under tension that I have problems - If i've someone up the mast helping it, no problem, but that in itself is problematic

The 'least installation hassle' refers to not having to take the rig down!

 

[penfold]

Does the new foresail have a longer luff than the old?

 

[Martin_J]

I'm guessing that the new/replacement genoa has a slightly shorter luff than the previous genoa, so the upper swivel now does not go as far up as it used to.

Quickest solution would be to use a short strop between the head of the sail and the upper swivel, just long enough to allow that swivel to have better halyard angle to the sheave.

It looks like just a few inches in length would be enough...

 

[Boathook]

I'm guessing that the new/replacement genoa has a slightly shorter luff than the previous genoa, so the upper swivel now does not go as far up as it used to.

Quickest solution would be to use a short strop between the head of the sail and the upper swivel, just long enough to allow that swivel to have better halyard angle to the sheave.

It looks like just a few inches in length would be enough...

Beaten to it. Quick test would be to add a strop at the bottom. if this sorts it out put it at the top so as not to affect sheeting angles.

 

[Daydream believer]

Lower the sail & you could fit a disc above the top rotating section. The furler manufacturer should be able to supply one. But the best option is to pop rivet a wheel halyard aligner to the mast & be done with the hassle. You have mentioned going up the mast, so presumably that is not an issue. Just do it.
The strop at the top may solve the problem, but not always as it does not have the sail immediately below to make the furler rotate correctly

 

[Alan S]

Martin J and boathook have the solution. I have experienced this when changing to a sail with shorter luff.

 

[Daydream believer]

Yes potentially, but it is fairly fresh with not much play in the bearings, I'm waiting on silicon waterproof grease to arrive to lube both top and bottom up before trying again.

Are you sure that grease is the correct thing to put in these bearings?

 

[StevieD]

I'm guessing that the new/replacement genoa has a slightly shorter luff than the previous genoa, so the upper swivel now does not go as far up as it used to.

Quickest solution would be to use a short strop between the head of the sail and the upper swivel, just long enough to allow that swivel to have better halyard angle to the sheave.

It looks like just a few inches in length would be enough...

Yes by 2-3" I believe, I'd have to get the two side by side to be 100% sure, but a previous photo does shoe the top swivel further up the foil - I'll give the strop option a try to test the theory thank you!

 

[StevieD]

Lower the sail & you could fit a disc above the top rotating section. The furler manufacturer should be able to supply one. But the best option is to pop rivet a wheel halyard aligner to the mast & be done with the hassle. You have mentioned going up the mast, so presumably that is not an issue. Just do it.
The strop at the top may solve the problem, but not always as it does not have the sail immediately below to make the furler rotate correctly

If the strop works then yes I'll get a diverter sorted and fitted. Thanks

 

[StevieD]

Are you sure that grease is the correct thing to put in these bearings?

For the bottom section yes - I'll double check the manual for the top swivel thanks!

 

[StevieD]

You need a halyard diverter.

Added explanation - the halliard in your photo is almost parallel to the stay. In that case, it can't stop the top swivel from rotating, resulting in a halliard wrap. A diverter will change the angel of the halliard with respect to the stay so that tension in the halliard will stop the top swivel from rotating.

Thanks AP that puts the logic into perspective - the longer luff on the damaged sail would have allowed the desired 10 deg angle to be achieved and prevent wrap!

 

[johnalison]

With everything working perfectly, the swivel lubricated and the halyard tension taken off, the current arrangement might just work, but it really needs correcting as suggested.

 

[Martin_J]

If the strop works then yes I'll get a diverter sorted and fitted. Thanks

The problem with fitting the diverter is that your taller genoa will not then fully hoist...

 

[Praxinoscope]

I'm not sure if there is sufficient room but it may be that a 'deflecter' might be worth investigating.
Have a look at the Cox engineering page on the subject of halyard wrap.

 

[steveeasy]

I had a similar problem that only occured after a wild night at sea. Greasing the swivels helped,as did reducing luff tension. However I fitted as suggested a diverter to change the halyard to the recommended angle.

Steveeasy