Caladh
Well-known member
The bull horn splice on my dyneema halyard to the shackle is starting to fray. Can I cut it off and just tie a halyard knot to the shackle ie. Would this slip on dyneema? 
Halyard to wichard shackle knot
- Thread starter Caladh
- Start date
dunedin
Well-known member
We have used a halyard know on the same type of shackle for about 15 seasons so far (but occasionally end for ended or moved slightly to avoid chafe in other areas of halyard). Works well on Liros cruising dyneema.
I winch tight between two sheet winches before use.
Clearly marginally reduces strength compared to a perfect splice, but generally halyards sized for grip not breaking strength.
I winch tight between two sheet winches before use.
Clearly marginally reduces strength compared to a perfect splice, but generally halyards sized for grip not breaking strength.
thinwater
Well-known member
I would investigate the masthead to see what is eating it. Is it against the sheave? If yes, you have no room for a knot.
Yes, a knot can slip, but you can stop that with a seizing.
Yes, a knot can slip, but you can stop that with a seizing.
Neeves
Well-known member
I'd be surprised if you have room for a halyard knot in the space of the Witchard shackle, but you could change the shackle.
Why not splice? It will be smaller and less palatable to whatever is hungry at the top of your mast.
Jonathan
Why not splice? It will be smaller and less palatable to whatever is hungry at the top of your mast.
Jonathan
geem
Well-known member
Why not do away with the shackle? I have been using a bowline in dyneema halyards for 20 years
William_H
Well-known member
I would advocate removal of the shackle and just use a bowling or halliard knot straight on to sail. This may move hallaird away from what ever is chafing the halliard and makes it easy to occasionally move the halliard up or down relating to sheaves etc so moving wear point. No I think dyneema is ok knotted with any standard knot. Yes it feels slippery. ol'will
ithet
Well-known member
What is a bull horn splice?
Daydream believer
Well-known member
Why not discard the shackle. Put a plastic stopper on the end of the halyard retained with an overhand knot.
Double the halyard over & poke it through the eye in the headboard, so that there is a loop on one side of the headboard. Then take the tail of the halyard with the stopper on it & pass it through the loop Then pull the halyard up tight so that the loop now jams the tail in the loop. It cannot pull through as the stopper will prevent that. It should not anyway but it is an extra safety point.
Easy to undo. Does not need a shackle that might come loose. Sail can be pulled up the mast further. Nothing to bind in the mast sheave.
Double the halyard over & poke it through the eye in the headboard, so that there is a loop on one side of the headboard. Then take the tail of the halyard with the stopper on it & pass it through the loop Then pull the halyard up tight so that the loop now jams the tail in the loop. It cannot pull through as the stopper will prevent that. It should not anyway but it is an extra safety point.
Easy to undo. Does not need a shackle that might come loose. Sail can be pulled up the mast further. Nothing to bind in the mast sheave.
Stemar
Well-known member
A quick Google comes up with a load of different stuff, but only with this thread with reference to rope anywhere near the top.
Praxinoscope
Well-known member
I have used a similar method for some time, seems to work well, and as Db says you can get the main up further.
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MontyMariner
Well-known member
With dyneema, there are lots of ways to do it, but seeing the wear, one thing I would do is put a plastic ball on the halyard and see if that takes the wear.
Daydream believer
Well-known member
If you do it as I describe, the ball would not actually take any load, as it would be just laying on a free tail end. It is only there in an emergency.
I am not sure where else one would put a ball. If you are suggesting on the halyard above the sail it would seem a pointless exercise. Why would you do that?
ithet
Well-known member
Yes. That's why I was asking what the OP meant.
MontyMariner
Well-known member
Yes. It would act as a buffer between the sheaf and where the halyard meets the sail.
st599
Well-known member
Caladh
Well-known member
In the picture! Looks like a bull horn - this is what I’ve been told it’s called.
Caladh
Well-known member
See Jonathan’s reply. A bowline won‘t allow the main to be pulled up high enough.
flaming
Well-known member
Personally I’d end to end the halyard and re-splice. Splicing with the part of the rope that’s been under tension won’t be as easy as splicing the bit that isn’t loaded in use. Nothing really wrong with the halyard knot though.
I’d also want to know what’s causing that amount of chafe…
geem
Well-known member
It will allow it to be pulled up high enough once the shackle has gone. That shackle is a long shackle. I originally removed the shackle for the same reason on an old mainsail that had stretched. There wasn't enough room for a shackle with the Splice making the rope fatter and fouling in the sheave. A bowline can be made short
flaming
Well-known member
Nothing wrong with that providing your halyards are considerably over specified, as a bowline reduces line strength a more than a halyard knot, and a lot more than a splice.
Almost certainly they will be well over specified on a cruising boat, but worth bearing in mind.
Halyard knot on the shackle is a simpler solution if you are regularly removing the halyard from the sail.
