Escape Blue
New member
Good day to all and I know its a while, I just got an Halmatic 30 build 08.1979 and I wonder if anyone know the motor build in this ship? Was completely flooded and seems no readable sings on it to identify.
Halmatic 30
- Thread starter oz-1
- Start date
Bajansailor
Well-known member
Welcome to the Forum Blue.
Are you able to post a photo of your engine, or do you have to write a few more posts first?
Are you able to post a photo of your engine, or do you have to write a few more posts first?
Escape Blue
New member
I'm going to try to get a picture asap, have no access to it right now. Thanks for responding.
Escape Blue
New member
I found an old survey doc and the motor type is clearly mentioned as a Volvo MD7A, seems I have all info I need for now.
Cotillion
Member
Had one since 2008. Message me if you have any questions.
Tranona
Well-known member
MD7A could well have been the original. However most of these boats will have had new engines by now as the originals were usually inadequate or have worn out. the normal installation now would be something like a Beta 25 or anything between 20-30hp.
Bajansailor
Well-known member
@Escape Blue Please do still post a photo if you can - as Tranona notes above, it might well be a different engine to the original MD7A.
KianOG1
New member
Hi Halmatic gang!
Mk1 owner here. I'd love to see some photos of your battery setups! Has anyone thought about or successfully relocated the bank from under the cockpit sole? Awesome boat, but its super annoying for engine access. I can only really see the option of removing the whole bank temporarily for workable access to the rear of the engine. I was thinking about under the saloon seat near the heads, but might be a bit too long of a run. Thoughts? TIA
Mk1 owner here. I'd love to see some photos of your battery setups! Has anyone thought about or successfully relocated the bank from under the cockpit sole? Awesome boat, but its super annoying for engine access. I can only really see the option of removing the whole bank temporarily for workable access to the rear of the engine. I was thinking about under the saloon seat near the heads, but might be a bit too long of a run. Thoughts? TIA
Gadget257
Member
Hi, I am currently refurbishing a Halmatic 30 MkII and having the same ideas. I am replacing the Engine this month and planing to keep the starter battery (taking up less space) under the cockpit sole and move the house batteries under the berth/seat next to chart table to keep the run short (rewiring so I can eventually replace the house batteries with lithium). Unfortunately there isn't an owners association but there are a couple of Facebook pages my preferred is Halmatic/Barbican 30 Owners Group.
KianOG1
New member
Hi Gadget,
I'm actually in the same position where I want to change the engine for a Beta 20 this year. It was actually impossible to remove the rear anode of my old/current engine or change the transmission oil. Tightening the stern gland also required some effort! Without the bank in there seems like you could perch quite nicely to do work. Also I don't know about your boat, but in mine the current setup doesn't allow for the best cable routing either.
I also considered exactly what you're suggesting, having a small starter under the cockpit sole (or even building a support/housing into one of the cockpit lockers could be cool to really keep it open). There might also be space for a small starter under the chart table. The house banks would be inside and be replaced by AGM for now to prevent off gassing.
The only concern I had about where you're suggesting, is that the access for the fuel hose connection is also under here. However, I do feel like that would only need access once in a blue moon. Also, I am worried that where I suggested would be too much of a cable run. Not worried about a change in the weight distribution in these boats either, though that's just an opinion.
Would be cool to hear about your progress on the boat!
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Gadget257
Member
You are right the engine bay with a comparably large 1980's engine (VP2002 with flywheel) one of the least accessible of any yacht I've sailed on. I am also putting a new Beta 20 later this month or early next - just finishing the prep off this weekend. I reckoned the old engine needed a couple of thousand of pounds of work and there was no guarantee so I've bit the bullet and have bought a new one. There was a little bit of debate on the earlier mentioned Facebook page on the best engine size 20 or 25 Hp (the weight difference is only a few Kgs).
The cabling for the house batteries need not be as thick as the starter battery as long as the potential loads, voltage drops etc are correctly calculated. The fuel connections on my boat are not in the same area as yours (they are under the cabin sole).
I'll PM you some photos over the weekend. Equally I am interested in learning about your progress.
Tranona
Well-known member
A Beta 25 is much preferred as the 20 does not have enough power to achieve hull speed (it needs 20 at the prop). A 25 will give you an additional half knot or so and allow cruising at 2-300 lower rpm. However there is the limitation of space for the propeller and you really need a 16" propeller and suspect there is not enough space. The 25 needs a 14" with a 2:1 reduction and a 20 a 13". However if you fit a 2.65 reduction on a 20 you can go up to 14" obviously with less pitch. The more blade area you can get the better for motoring because the centre of the prop is masked by the keel. Always a bit of a compromise, but measure the aperture, ideally 15" diameter tip clearance is 2 1/4" (15%) ab-marine.com/knowledge-base-propeller-basics/how-to-measure-for-propeller-tip-clearance/
On the subject of start batteries, consider using one of these
batterygroup.co.uk/batteries-by-vehicle/motorbike/starter-batteries/9108/odyssey-ods-agm30e-pc950-12v-34ah-400a-agm-motorcycle-battery-er30?number=9880899&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2qDc1vGthAMVappQBh3DRwhwEAQYAiABEgJjzPD_BwE
Expensive but very long lasting. i had a similar type in my Morgan from new and it lasted 19 years and have one in my boat starting a Beta 30. You can buy holders for them to mount in any orientation. often used in small racing cars in a holder over the gearbox. You can see mine as I was installing it in the photo. It allowed me to fit 2*95Ah AGMs in a very tight space.
Hope this helps
On the subject of start batteries, consider using one of these
batterygroup.co.uk/batteries-by-vehicle/motorbike/starter-batteries/9108/odyssey-ods-agm30e-pc950-12v-34ah-400a-agm-motorcycle-battery-er30?number=9880899&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2qDc1vGthAMVappQBh3DRwhwEAQYAiABEgJjzPD_BwE
Expensive but very long lasting. i had a similar type in my Morgan from new and it lasted 19 years and have one in my boat starting a Beta 30. You can buy holders for them to mount in any orientation. often used in small racing cars in a holder over the gearbox. You can see mine as I was installing it in the photo. It allowed me to fit 2*95Ah AGMs in a very tight space.
Hope this helps
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doug748
Well-known member
Get the 20hp, you will never use it fully but it's a good engine, I think they had 14ish when new. Spend your savings on the best gearbox
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Goldie
Well-known member
Very close
. The Halmatic 30 had 13hp initially, the MD7a . Later models had the MD7b I think, 17hp.Tranona
Well-known member
That was then when there was little choice as there was no space to fit anything with greater HP, but that does not mean when spending the thick end of £8k on a replacement (assuming professional installation) one should not take advantage of what is now available to get the best performance out of the investment. Start with the propeller and determine the biggest diameter that will fit in the aperture then work back to the best combination of engine and reduction box to drive the propeller. There are no downsides (except a small initial extra cost) in having a more powerful engine that will achieve hull speed. The Beta 25 is a very popular engine because it fills the gap for boat like this with a displacement in the 3.5-5 tonne range where the 20 is marginal and the 30 is overkill. The Halmatic displaces just over 4 tonnes and needs 20hp at the prop but the 20hp engine only provides 17.5 whereas the 25 gives 22.Very close
doug748
Well-known member
I don't know where you are based but there is a used 20hp Beta engine on Ebay marketplace asking c 2k. It looks as new, is said to be in Salcombe and pictured on a pallet. It sounds kosher but the usual caveats apply.
Many new boats of this size come with c20hp the Dufour 37 (7 tons) has less, so you will probably never use the power at hand and be using this size engine to good advantage.
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Goldie
Well-known member
I agree with you. Not sure why I got the lecture though - I was merely providing the information as to what the original engine options were.
Tranona
Well-known member
Sorry - not specifically addressed at you but a reflection on how times have changed and how higher expectations can be met.
Tranona
Well-known member
Knowing what a stickler for accuracy you are. The Dufour "37" is actually only 32'9" long with a bowsprit bringing it up to 35'4" and displaces 6.474 tonnes. While the basic spec is a 20hp engine the test boat which you have no doubt seen had the 30hp option which I have no doubt most buyers would specify. According to the report it achieved just short of hull speed at 7.4knots which is correct as 31hp is required to get to hull speed. Although they claim the 20hp would get similar sped in flat water, that is not possible as using the same calculations it would only achieve 6.4 knots.
If you look back to post#31 the issue of which size engine was raised by an owner reflecting that the larger engine is preferred (so not my suggestion). I was just trying to explain why - the boat is on the borderline between the 2 sizes and the limiting factor is likely to be the size of propeller that fits the aperture. While the 20 will be satisfactory and a vast improvement on the original, if one i investing in a new installation the small additional cost of the larger engine is well worth it (assuming an appropriate propeller). Of course the argument is different if a suitable 20hp is available at the sort of price you are suggesting.
Better to start from first principles to try and get the best for the individual boat.
doug748
Well-known member
Nor me. Gadget should fit whatever engine he is comfortable with but you can reach a point of diminishing returns, 16hp is plenty, 20hp will have some reserve, that will probably never be used, 25 even more.
Gadget, As you probably well know, all boats with props labouring in an aperture tend to have two problems (at least!) 1 Prop cavitation and related noise transmitted through the hull, which is made worse as you increase the diameter/size of the prop and 2 Pressure pulses acting directly on the rudder which can become extreme even unmanageable at high revs, particularly with two blades. Before committing I would seek out people who have actual experience of motoring the Halmatic at top theoretical hull speed and see what they say. A second and third opinion is always good.
It's tempting to imagine motoring at 6.5 kts into a full gale but most people will cut the revs right down and vector off under mainsail; much easier motion, helm and noise levels.
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