Hallberg Rassy 29 windlass, teak deck and liveaboardability

GabrielS said:
Hello YBW community.
After a few years of deliberating, and conversations with friends who liveaboard, I have decided that it would make sense for me to buy a small sailboat and make the leap myself. In my search for a boat I have some across a few examples of the Hallberg Rassy 29 in Denmark and Sweden that are within my price range. As I have family in Denmark, and a family friend who is in the process of starting up a marine service business, it seems pretty ideal. However, I have never been on an HR29 and I have a few questions I was hoping the forum would be able to help answer.
A) I am 5'11, would the HR29 be suitable as a liveaboard? Headroom would be an issues on most boats of this size I imagine and I am somewhat taking the approach that this will be 'camping on the sea'. Are there any other reasons the HR29 wouldn't make a good liveaboard?
B) Most of the HR29's I have seen for sale do not seem to have a windlass. Is this fairly straightforward/expensive to install?
C) My biggest concern is with the teak decks, unless they have been replaced they are coming up to 30-40 years. Any issues or experience with this? I have seen one with the teak deck replaced with GPR, should this be a big selling point? Does it have an adverse effect on the resale value of HR's? (In case I want to upgrade in a couple of years)
D) Any know issues with the HR29, or anything in particular to look out for with this model?
Thank you in advance for taking your time to read my post and respond.

GabrielS
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I dont know about the Rassy but i have never had a teak deck and never will.
 
I have no reason to doubt the HR 29 is a good boat, but I would not time myself down to a specific make/model at this early stage. If you widen your field, there are a lot of good 30 foot boats out there and it will give you a better choice and idea about what you want/value in a boat
 
johnalison said:
Some teak decks on offer are very thin, but HR wouldn't offer them if they weren't popular with purchasers and giving good service.
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True, but most older HR models had screwed decks, which are a nightmare. You made a good point in post 2, when you mentioned that many HR29s were built without a teak deck (unusually for HR). If the OP is set on an HR29, he should certainly try to buy one without teak.
 
Thank you all for the very informative replies. It has been very useful to me.

Just to address a few comments:

I know there can be issues with teak decks, but also that it depends on the builder. They are nice to look at, but I assume they have to be assessed on a boat by boat basis.

I know that a windlass on a 30ft boat seems like a luxury, but from speaking to a few a liveaboards, who mainly stay at anchor, it does seem to be a worthwhile investment. I have moved it from my 'must-have' to a 'someday' purchase.

I am not 100% set on a HR29 and are looking at other boats as well,currently Scanmar 33, Albin Ballad and Mamba 31 are topping my list as well. I didn't want to do a boat Y vs X vs Z style of post as A) I am still narrowing down my list and B) I would rather get some specific advice on a boat and make up my mind that way. Maybe I am wrong and I should do a post like that.
 
You don’t mention budget but we used to have a Dufour 29 which we lived aboard quite comfortably for 2-3 months at a time. I’m 6’ and had full standing headroom throughout, no quarter berth so huge cockpit lockers, loads of storage inside and a cracking sailing boat. Late 70s so getting a bit long in the tooth now but big for a ‘29’. My marina measured it when I complained about the pontoon we were on and got it to 31’loa!
 
I have a Simpson Lawrence manual windlass which works well both pulling up the chain and veering it in a controlled manner. Its not just weight of the anchor, if you are in 10m of water the chain itself is heavy, then if you have a load of mud and weed on the anchor.... I wouldn't like to be without it. An old teak deck will need replacing at some point but the figures suggested are over the top. I had the teak deck replaced on my Victoria 30 a couple of years ago. It depends if you think the boat is worth the investment long term. In my case I have owned her for many years and want to keep her long term so it made sense. But if the deck is coming to the end of its life then it will reduce the value of the boat as you can't ignore it indefinitely.
 
pvb said:
True, but most older HR models had screwed decks, which are a nightmare. You made a good point in post 2, when you mentioned that many HR29s were built without a teak deck (unusually for HR). If the OP is set on an HR29, he should certainly try to buy one without teak.
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HR31s were also offered without teak decks. In fact all were built with moulded in grip surfaces with teak added over if specified. Only later versions were teak only (no option) when the moulds wore such that the grip was insufficient.
 
Jamie Dundee said:
You don’t mention budget but we used to have a Dufour 29 which we lived aboard quite comfortably for 2-3 months at a time. I’m 6’ and had full standing headroom throughout, no quarter berth so huge cockpit lockers, loads of storage inside and a cracking sailing boat. Late 70s so getting a bit long in the tooth now but big for a ‘29’. My marina measured it when I complained about the pontoon we were on and got it to 31’loa!
Click to expand...

I have not had a look at the Dufour but I will check it out. A friend of mine just got a Dufour and is very happy with her. He usually sails the Viking ship Havhingsten around the Baltic!

I thought about writing up a longer post giving a bit more background and information on what my plans and experience is, as it might help people get a better understanding of what I am looking for. But after topping up my pension this year and contingency fund I have about €27.000 left-over, so I am thinking 22k for boat purchase and 5k for upgrades and repairs. I don't have my final tax bill yet, but I should know from my accountant soonish, and as my industry has been completely disseminated by Covid and I don't expect to work until next year, there should be no nasty surprises there. So I might have a bit more. We will see.

ColinR said:
I have a Simpson Lawrence manual windlass which works well both pulling up the chain and veering it in a controlled manner. Its not just weight of the anchor, if you are in 10m of water the chain itself is heavy, then if you have a load of mud and weed on the anchor.... I wouldn't like to be without it. An old teak deck will need replacing at some point but the figures suggested are over the top. I had the teak deck replaced on my Victoria 30 a couple of years ago. It depends if you think the boat is worth the investment long term. In my case I have owned her for many years and want to keep her long term so it made sense. But if the deck is coming to the end of its life then it will reduce the value of the boat as you can't ignore it indefinitely.
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This is what I am thinking as well, it is not just the anchor but 15m+ chain. Not having a windlass will not be a deal-breaker, but it will definitely be on a wish list. You make a good point about teak decks and resale value, which might become an issue down the line.
 
Stork_III said:
HR31s were also offered without teak decks. In fact all were built with moulded in grip surfaces with teak added over if specified. Only later versions were teak only (no option) when the moulds wore such that the grip was insufficient.
Click to expand...

Do you know when they switched and on what models?
 
Stork_III said:
In fact all were built with moulded in grip surfaces with teak added over if specified. Only later versions were teak only (no option) when the moulds wore such that the grip was insufficient.
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That's an interesting theory, but my 1990 HR352 had a very grippy non-slip moulded finish to the coachroof, which was of course exactly the same mould as the deck.
 
jordanbasset said:
I have no reason to doubt the HR 29 is a good boat, but I would not time myself down to a specific make/model at this early stage. If you widen your field, there are a lot of good 30 foot boats out there and it will give you a better choice and idea about what you want/value in a boat
Click to expand...
+1

IMO the keys to buying a boat are to understand the market¹; to know what features are critical to you and which unimportant, so you can be flexible about your decision; and to accept that there is no such thing as a cheap boat anyway.

The boat I ended up buying was not as I would have expected, and yet I love her and am very happy with her. She gets lots of complements and now I have singlehanded her across Biscay.

My last sail of the 2018 season was a mile-builder from Southampton to Malta, about this time of year. Returning to the miserable and wet UK I eventually decided to drive to Spain for the winter, but there was at least one boat in the Netherlands that I was interested in, so headed there first. I looked at numerous other boats and signed a contract to buy quite a different sailing yacht - I only looked at my present boat after that sale fell through (due, in fact, to the condition of the teak decks and the cost of replacing them). Viewing this boat was a bit of an afterthought, ticking a box so I could say that I'd looked at every eligible boat in the Netherlands before leaving - from the advert, I hadn't expected to like her anywhere as much as I did. I wouldn't say that I fell in love with my boat immediately, but she did instantly feel right. I didn't get her quite as cheaply as I'd have liked, but the sale completed quickly, so I was a boat owner in spring 2019.

Certain marques of boats command premium prices because they have reputations for quality and seaworthiness, but in fact there is a wide selection of others which are just as good, but have not been marketed so well.



¹ I bookmarked boat ads for literally years before buying mine, even before I started sailing, and revisited them periodically to see how much they'd been discounted. I have seen boats, after being on the market a year or two, discounted by as much as 50%
 
KompetentKrew said:
+1

IMO the keys to buying a boat are to understand the market¹; to know what features are critical to you and which unimportant, so you can be flexible about your decision; and to accept that there is no such thing as a cheap boat anyway.

The boat I ended up buying was not as I would have expected, and yet I love her and am very happy with her. She gets lots of complements and now I have singlehanded her across Biscay.

My last sail of the 2018 season was a mile-builder from Southampton to Malta, about this time of year. Returning to the miserable and wet UK I eventually decided to drive to Spain for the winter, but there was at least one boat in the Netherlands that I was interested in, so headed there first. I looked at numerous other boats and signed a contract to buy quite a different sailing yacht - I only looked at my present boat after that sale fell through (due, in fact, to the condition of the teak decks and the cost of replacing them). Viewing this boat was a bit of an afterthought, ticking a box so I could say that I'd looked at every eligible boat in the Netherlands before leaving - from the advert, I hadn't expected to like her anywhere as much as I did. I wouldn't say that I fell in love with my boat immediately, but she did instantly feel right. I didn't get her quite as cheaply as I'd have liked, but the sale completed quickly, so I was a boat owner in spring 2019.

Certain marques of boats command premium prices because they have reputations for quality and seaworthiness, but in fact there is a wide selection of others which are just as good, but have not been marketed so well.



¹ I bookmarked boat ads for literally years before buying mine, even before I started sailing, and revisited them periodically to see how much they'd been discounted. I have seen boats, after being on the market a year or two, discounted by as much as 50%
Click to expand...

I think that is very sound advice, and I do have other boats that I am researching at the moment. The problem for me is, that that list grows very very fast. I have narrowed it down to 4 models that I am researching now and trying to find as much info on as I can. I am currently in southern Germany and so it is not really possible for me to just meander down the marina and look at boats. And when I do get a chance to do that in two weeks time, I don't want to waste people's time by looking at boats that a bit of research would have shown to be unsuitable.

For reference, I am currently researching the following :

Hallberg Rassy 29.
Some are out of my budget, but with a bit of luck and negotiation, I could maybe find one.
No separate heads and potential issues with teak decks.

Albin Ballad.
No separate head. Some models seem to have no chain locker. Known to have issues with water leaking at the mast steep. Does not look to have a lot of standing headroom.

Scanmar 33.
Not a lot of handholds or storage, but seems to have a good layout and good sailing characteristics. At the upper limits of my budget.

Mamba 31.
Difficult to find information about this one, The FB owner group only has two members, which strangely makes me like the boat even more. Swedish built and designed by Rolf Magnusson who was also behind some of the Albins. From the numbers on sailboat data it looks similar to the Ballad. The galley runs down the port side of the boat and as I am not planning on entertaining large amounts of guests, that seems like a good use of space. Or?

No separate heads, a small galley, and limited headroom seems to be something I will have to live with on most boats this size.
 
And regarding the general boat market, a lot of the boats I looked at last month are no longer listed for sale. I spoke to one owner of a HR29 in Denmark and his sold within weeks. It seems to be a buyers market at the moment which kind of surprised me at first but makes sense when you think of the surge in 'staycations' and that people might have cash leftover they would normally have spent on a summer holiday.
 
GabrielS said:
I have narrowed it down to 4 models that I am researching now and trying to find as much info on as I can.
Click to expand...

For a boat to live aboard, I'd have thought the HR29 and the Scanmar 33 would be the key contenders. I don't think a Ballad is cosy enough and I'd avoid the Mamba simply because there are so few of them that re-selling it might be a problem.

There's a nice-looking HR29 in Sweden at 25K euros, with a newish Yanmar engine, up to date electronics, and no teak deck to worry about! - Hallberg-Rassy 29
 
pvb said:
For a boat to live aboard, I'd have thought the HR29 and the Scanmar 33 would be the key contenders. I don't think a Ballad is cosy enough and I'd avoid the Mamba simply because there are so few of them that re-selling it might be a problem.
Click to expand...

That is my thinking as well, but I keep wondering if an additional 10k just because of resell value is worth it? You'd get a Ballad for 10k.

pvb said:
There's a nice-looking HR29 in Sweden at 25K euros, with a newish Yanmar engine, up to date electronics, and no teak deck to worry about! - Hallberg-Rassy 29
Click to expand...

I have already emailed the broker and was going to respond to him tonight and organise a viewing. It is not to far from my folks house in DK. He didn't know the age, or content, of the sail inventory and believed the standing rigging to be original. Apparently 35 year old rigging is not uncommon in Scandinavia.

There is another one coming up for sale in Greece at the end of October. Should be listed for €26.000
 
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