Had this dream since childhood - considering making it a reality

[forestboy]

We keep our boat at Kemp's and there are at least half a dozen guys (it always seems to be guys ) living on board there. I don't know what their official rules are, but the management are aware of the residents and have no issue with it - having people on site 24/7 improves security if nothing else. No need to slink around in secret

Pete

Yeah strange that. Known quite a few women who live on canal boats though. Couldn't live on one myself.

 

[forestboy]

This arrangement makes sense for someone living in London or the Home Counties who's bought a new or nearly-new conventional white sloop, and doesn't actually use it that often. Not for someone who wants a large "character" boat and intends to live on it.



Not if it was being chartered, since yacht charters are generally for multiple days.

Pete

Yeah I was just shooting the breeze. I've no intention of chartering out whatever boat I buy.

 

[forestboy]

Forget the coaster, it's just a houseboat. Get this one, it goes.
All big tugs, coasters, trawlers etc have plenty of room to live on, but only a few are still good to go, with the machinery intact.
This is a bargain. Snap it up. Cheers Jerry.
The website is Euroshipbrokers by the way, I can't do a link just now.

Fuel will cost a pound a minute free running (light tug) at seven knots. That's a round estimate off the top of my head.
The vessel will be jam packed with expensive saleable gear, which you can easily sell bit by bit, if you are sure she will never be towing again.
Just do it!
AND it's under 24m so easy to be legal as a private yacht, or small workboat coding for work..

That's approx £10 per mile. I just would never be able to go anywhere. It would cost me like 2 grand to pop to London and back. I've gone well off the idea of motor boats. I want something that can be propelled by the wind so I can afford to go off and have adventures. I'm really liking a lot of the cats I'm looking at although I am a long way off affording one, it gives me the time to get some training and research research research.

If I sold everything I own and saved every penny for 3-5 years I could even get a 40ft which would be easily liveable on and that's it I could travel around every other year for the rest of my life.

Do unfurled sails weather/ fatigue. Anyone know?

 

[Kelpie]

What makes you think you need so much space?
Most liveaboard couples or even families have less space than any of the boats you have so far suggested.

Everything on a baot wears out over time. The bigger the boat, the bigger the cost.
As a very, very rough approximation, I would suggest the following:

- engine- 20yrs or so.
- standing rigging (the stuff that holds hte mast up)- 10yrs
- sails- about ten years if you want half decent performance
- spars- some boats still have their 40yr old ones but many more will have replaced them before that.
- instruments- might be as little as 5yrs if you feel the need to upgrade- and things do break and wear out (especially autopilots)
- canvas (sprayhood, dodgers, cockpit tents)- don't know as I've yet to replace these but 10-15yrs must be in the ballpark.
- interior upholstery- again, haven't had to do this but it takes a lot of wear, damp, abuse, so probably 10-15yrs again.

 

[forestboy]

I'm not sure. I just don't want to go for something and think DAMN, wish I'd got a slightly bigger one. For certain I don't need 6 berths, it's more saloon/ galley space I'd like or to somehow covert a double birth into a small study. I'm always online researching something or studying.

Really the lagoon 380 would be more than sufficient if I could convert one of those double births. I'm leaning towards cats because I like the idea of having 2 keels, 2 engines, 2 hulls etc that both need to fail for you to be really in the deep and smelly if you know what I mean. Also deck space is really nice to have with the ability to stow an inflated dingy on the back. From my research I'd be strong enough to hoist the main sail on the 38 manually if I had too so this is a bonus as I may go off alone.

I do understand the logic behind keeping things minimalist, and though I am not unaccustomed to roughing it, quite severely in the past, I do like my creature comforts I'll admit!

 

[Kelpie]

Erm, if one hull on a cat fails you are probably better off taking to the liferaft. Also, you may not be aware that monohulls are capable of self-righting whereas cats are not! Not really a problem with the sizes you are looking at, unless you fancy taking on 'Perfect Storm' conditions!

Don't worry too much about being able to stow an inflated dinghy. We cruise on a 27ftr with two large dogs, who need to go ashore twice daily for obvious reasons. I have developed a very practical method of inflating/deploying a dinghy using an electric pump and a halyard as a hoist. Takes about five minutes, singlehanded. Only problem is if it's blowing a hoolie when the dinghy has been known to turn into a large kite flying from the end of the halyard!

Don't worry about whether you can hoist the mainsail, that's no limit, as you can just put it on a winch and take your time. A much bigger worry would be whether you can tack the genoa efficiently on a large boat- that's far more strenuous.

Going for a <40ft monohull doesn not need to mean roughing it. You can still have standing headroom throughout, three cabins, pressurised hot and cold water, shower, fridge, etc.

Lots of people give the advice that you should get the smallest boat you can put up with, not the largest one you can afford. I certainly would not want the running cost of a boat over about 40ft, even if it was in perfect condition when I got it I would worry about the eventual replacement of rigging, sails, engine, and the increased costs of berthing and maintenance.

 

[forestboy]

Erm, if one hull on a cat fails you are probably better off taking to the liferaft. Also, you may not be aware that monohulls are capable of self-righting whereas cats are not! Not really a problem with the sizes you are looking at, unless you fancy taking on 'Perfect Storm' conditions!

Don't worry too much about being able to stow an inflated dinghy. We cruise on a 27ftr with two large dogs, who need to go ashore twice daily for obvious reasons. I have developed a very practical method of inflating/deploying a dinghy using an electric pump and a halyard as a hoist. Takes about five minutes, singlehanded. Only problem is if it's blowing a hoolie when the dinghy has been known to turn into a large kite flying from the end of the halyard!

Don't worry about whether you can hoist the mainsail, that's no limit, as you can just put it on a winch and take your time. A much bigger worry would be whether you can tack the genoa efficiently on a large boat- that's far more strenuous.

Going for a <40ft monohull doesn not need to mean roughing it. You can still have standing headroom throughout, three cabins, pressurised hot and cold water, shower, fridge, etc.

Lots of people give the advice that you should get the smallest boat you can put up with, not the largest one you can afford. I certainly would not want the running cost of a boat over about 40ft, even if it was in perfect condition when I got it I would worry about the eventual replacement of rigging, sails, engine, and the increased costs of berthing and maintenance.

I do understand what you are saying and I wasn't for a second saying that living on a less than 40ft mono was roughing it. However, I'm estimating that keeping costs for that lagoon 380 for example would be roughly 35k every 5 years. More maintenance if travelling, more mooring if stationary etc. I've got a friend who spends more than double that in all costs living in a luxury flat, which of course I think is insane. I could work 6-8 months a year and I'm pretty certain that even if things went really badly I'd still be able to afford the cost. Worse case scenario I wouldn't be able to go away winter time. No big deal. What I'm saying is I don't think I'd be scrapping by as long as I had no loans and such to pay so why the hell not save for a little while longer and get a really nice versatile boat?

 

[forestboy]

BTW I have medium sized ridgeback cross. She is a rescue dog who is almost completely silent unless someone approaches the property. Do dogs get sea sick. She's never been tested out in that regard. I don't think she will cos she loves the car and trains, buses etc. but it's a thought!

 

[Kelpie]

My dog occasionally got car-sick as a pup but has never been seasick. And she has been out in conditions where I've had to lock her down below for her own safety (human crew being fitted with lifejackets and lifelines, hatches closed due to following seas). SWMBO's dog likewise is never seasick.
I think it all depends on the dog, I'm sure, just like people, that some are more prone than others.

 

[forestboy]

My dog occasionally got car-sick as a pup but has never been seasick. And she has been out in conditions where I've had to lock her down below for her own safety (human crew being fitted with lifejackets and lifelines, hatches closed due to following seas). SWMBO's dog likewise is never seasick.
I think it all depends on the dog, I'm sure, just like people, that some are more prone than others.

Hmmm, thanks. What do you do with the dog your off shore for a day or 2?

 

[forestboy]

I was thinking I could put a life jacket on her, tether her up and throw her overboard lol/ joke

 

[Kelpie]

Longest passage so far with dogs aboard was 28hrs. Tried to encourage them to use the foredeck, but to no avail. Not so much as a drop out of them! I haven't tried keeping them aboard for longer because it seems too cruel...

Some people report difficulties getting their dogs on and off the boat. Again, it depends on the dog. A bathing platform at the back of the boat helps a lot, but if you don't have this, you need fairly low freeboard. My dog can only just get from the dinghy onto the side-deck. Yet another reason to keep the boat small

 

[forestboy]

Longest passage so far with dogs aboard was 28hrs. Tried to encourage them to use the foredeck, but to no avail. Not so much as a drop out of them! I haven't tried keeping them aboard for longer because it seems too cruel...

Some people report difficulties getting their dogs on and off the boat. Again, it depends on the dog. A bathing platform at the back of the boat helps a lot, but if you don't have this, you need fairly low freeboard. My dog can only just get from the dinghy onto the side-deck. Yet another reason to keep the boat small

Or the dog small;-) My dog's about 30 kilos. A bit cumbersome but can be lifted.

Perhaps a 25 kilo bag of sand poured onto a small tarp might do the trick for the dogs!? Mine too is very particular as to where she does the business though hmmm! Animal does have a knack of thwarting my plans.

 

[prv]

Do dogs get sea sick. She's never been tested out in that regard. I don't think she will cos she loves the car and trains, buses etc. but it's a thought!

Just like humans, some do all the time, some do if it's rough, and some don't at all. Same with whether they like being on a boat - some enjoy it, some aren't that keen but want to go where you go, and some absolutely hate it!

Perhaps a 25 kilo bag of sand poured onto a small tarp might do the trick for the dogs!?

Never heard that one before. Can't see it working under way, and sounds like a lot of effort even at anchor.

The traditional solution is to train them to use a square of astroturf, which you can put on the foredeck if it's not too rough. With a hole punched through one corner you can tie a line to it, and then after use you just trail it behind for a rinse. But as Mavanier showed, many dogs can't be convinced that it's ok to go on the astroturf. Probably best started with puppies.

Pete

 

[forestboy]

Just like humans, some do all the time, some do if it's rough, and some don't at all. Same with whether they like being on a boat - some enjoy it, some aren't that keen but want to go where you go, and some absolutely hate it!



Never heard that one before. Can't see it working under way, and sounds like a lot of effort even at anchor.

The traditional solution is to train them to use a square of astroturf, which you can put on the foredeck if it's not too rough. With a hole punched through one corner you can tie a line to it, and then after use you just trail it behind for a rinse. But as Mavanier showed, many dogs can't be convinced that it's ok to go on the astroturf. Probably best started with puppies.

Pete

Of course, astro turf- wonder if the would. Hmmm

 

[dk]

Forestboy
I started dreaming like you when I was just 18. The best advice I ever had was to buy small and cheap to start with to see if I actually liked living aboard. I won't go into too much detail, but I'm still sailing 40 years later and have learned a lot in the meantime, as you can imagine.

From my experience:
Don't buy bigger than you really need otherwise the costs will force you to continue working ashore forever! [I sailed many 1,000s of miles in my first 24ft woodie, but came home after 5 years to earn enough to buy bigger. I've never been able to afford to go off long-term cruising again!]
Start small, then decide what you really want to do before buying 'the' eventual boat. The most common mistake I see is folk spending a fortune on ocean-going kit, then rarely leaving the marina. Better to save the dosh for living and maintenance [something that newbies always underestimate by a factor of at least 50% BTW].
If you plan to go off grid entirely, best to find, or modify your work so that you can take it with you.
Finally, do get as much advice as you can before you shell out your hard-earned on a complete wreck. Even if you can't afford a surveyor's fees, find a mate or someone friendly from a nearby sailing club to give it the once-over first.
Lastly, I have a yacht on a mooring in the Hamble River. It is much cheaper (£2,250/32ft) than a marina berth (appx £6,400). But getting back and fore is tedious in foul weather and you need to be ingenious with power. Although I have wind and solar power on board, I tend to pop into a marina for a night every fortnight for a major recharge of water, power and provisions.
Good luck and don't get too disheartened but some of what you read in forums like this. There is a huge amount of useful advice available for free right here - make the most of it, but do think hard about what you really want to achieve first or folk'll get bored with your mind changes!
Cheers, Duncan

 

[Sybarite]

The advice I always give to a newbie is to try to charter before buying. A few weeks living the dream will help to sort out your ideas which, on this thread have gone from a 105' steel coaster to a 38' Grp catamaran.

For many couples the ideal LT liveaboard would be around 40' which for them is a compromise betwween, cost, room, performance and seaworthiness.

Now that you have embraced the notion of sail there are so many books and blogs about people who have spent a lifetime on boats and stating the reasons why they chosen the boat that they own.

You could Google people like Tom Cunliffe or look at the site "Attainable Adventure Cruising".

Good luck with your dream.

 

[forestboy]

Hehe thanks DK and Sybarine!

I know my parameters have changed somewhat but it's because up until very recently this hasn't really been viable at all. Now it is more than a pipe dream I am thinking in more depth as to what I actually want and travel and freedom is paramount.

I don't need masses of space as long as I can afford to travel. I hear what everyone is saying about getting less boat that you can afford to alleviate pressure but it's still a way away and business is good so I may be in a better position than that which I have alluded to by the time I actually bite the bullet on this. However, no I don't need or want a 100 ft cruiser. I was thinking along those lines not so much with the intention of travelling so much but now I'm thinking very differently. However, I do want to get something that I will be comfortable on for many years to come and Sybarine 24ft just wouldn't cut it I don't think really! Don't get me wrong, this is my current living, eating, office and sleeping space and I love it. I built the loft bed so I could use my bedroom as a small gym cos I get back problems which my job doesn't forgive so I have to stretch and weight train to keep them at bay.

BTW how do you secure a boat when abroad in an unfamiliar place when not actually on the boat? I'm speaking from the point of view of travelling alone!

 

[NickTrevethan]

Have to agree.. this would be a huge project and unless you are damned practical - which doesnt seem to be the case, or vastly wealthy, you will struggle.

Finding a berth will be hard enough. But to make something like a home would cost several hundred thousand pounds -- half a million I reckon, Engines alone will bankrupt most of us!

That's why governments and companies own ships, mostly, rather than people. Indeed she is priced only a little more that scrap value assuming she displaces around 300 tonnes -- that should tell you something about condition.

Look at something half that size, the cost of sorting out will be a tenth as much. In fact buy something 25-35 feet long -- learn to pilot, learn how to fix things (easier and sheaper on a small boat) then if you still feel the same buy something bigger. But unless you are richer than God, limit the size to 60 foot or so.

 

[forestboy]

Couple of questions someone might be kind enough to have a go at answering.

How much roughly would having something like a full yacht master license effect insurance, or at least a coastal yacht master license.

And if you were somewhere unfamiliar how do you know your boat is totally safe when moored when you are on shore?

Cheers