Had enough - selling boat

[Major Catastrophe]

So, today was the big day to get the boat out of the water and down to dealers to get the engines (Outboards) serviced and an anode changed. Wary that the only other two times I have recovered on to the trailer has resulted in damage to the keel. I spent much of the winter repairing the damage and fitting a KeelGuard, all diligantly reported here and here, amongst other posts.

Anyway, instead of driving the boat onto the trailer, I decided to go up to the rear rollers and let someone attach the winch strop and winch her onto the trailer by hand to make sure I didn't hit the trailer axles again.

All went very well, if very slow and we towed her around to the carpark to wash the boat and the trailer down.

Horror! Without any impact the entire weight of the boat must have rubbed the keel across both axles and literally tore the Keel Guard open, even exposing the original repair.

Torn asunder!

Rear axle.

Front axle.

Frankly I have had enough as I seemed to have bought the only boat and trailer set up that gurantees to damage it on recovery, and for all I know, on launch as well.

I can't really afford the time or the money to work on and repair the boat everytime I use the trailer, so I have decided to repair her one more time and sell up.

The boatyard/dealers did a lot of tooth sucking, but I don't really expect them to take any responsiblity after two years - boat went out of warrranty today!

Basically, I am the only one having trouble, so it must be my fault.

I love boating, but I want to be on it, not underneath it, so I will repair it and then get rid.

May buy another boat one day, but have had enough for the time being.

 

[Giblets]

Do not dispair.

Do you have bunks or rollers on the trailer. Whichever, it sounds as though bunks/rollers have not been set up on the trailer correctly thus allowing the keel to contact the trailer in recovery. I have had several boats on trailers and there has always been a fair clearance between the keel/trailer when winching on. Has anyone else recovered it with no problems. Perhaps a word in the boatyard/dealers ear might bear fruit like a contribution towards the cost of repair.

 

[Lakesailor]

That's a bummer. I didn't follow the original post closely and someone may have suggested this, but wasn't an extra roller abaft the axle ever suggested by the dealer, to just lift the keel over the obstruction?

Found it now
"We discussed this a few weeks ago. Once the boat is on the trailer, there is a clearance of 2 inches between axles and keel. Boat is not designed to be towed with weight taken on keel. Not only that, but SBS trailers tell me you cannot drill the axles as it would dangerously weaken them, they are not flat and both of them carry brake lines underneath so you cannot fix rollers with u bolts, but as I said, there is not enough room for a roller."

A roller to provide half an inch clearance is all you need. Brake lines can be re-routed or as a last resort, weld brackets on. A "U" shaped plate clamp that only goes over the top of the axle and uses a clamp bolt to nip it to the axle would work as the forces ar all acting downwards.
"Engineers" these days are particularly lacking in imagination, or looking over their shoulders at the liability issue.

 

[Alistairr]

Very sorry to hear that, but surely if its happening repeatedly, the trailer must be set up wrong, or bad design! Does the rear bar have a swinging action? Can we see a pic of the trailer please?

The other option is sink the trailer further into the water to make sure the boat floats over the end of the trailer.
We trailered both of our last boats, and never had a problem, but i did sink the trailers quite far, to float the boats on and off of the trailers, only problem with that is, getting the boat to sit square on the trailer, sometimes needing to go in and out a few times, till she sits nice.

Ask your dealer nicely, if they could alter the trailer FOC or exchange for a bunk trailer.

Hope you get it sorted.

Cheers

Al.

Oh, BTW, maybe try changing your login name for better luck! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

This is a great shame, but as others are suggesting, it does sound like the problem is entirely to do with trailer setup. I trailered my first boat on a super rollercoaster trailer and it did take a couple of goes to get the rollers in the right place; once set up it worked like a dream - including being able to just power the boat up the trailer for recovery.

You need to change the trailer, not the boat. If you don't get any help from your dealer with this, you could do worse than watch ebay for a bit - trailers do come up a lot, and you should be able to get exactly what you want - and get rid of your current trailer. This will all cost you less than changing the entire rig.

Very best of luck with it all - don't give up just yet.

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[duncan]

Chris,

This screams for a humerous response but I will desist.

As others have said the trailer cannot be set up correctly; however all the effort you went to before, and the people who comented then (in person) would have hightlighted that if it was that simple so 'what the hell is going on?'

I would also suggest you post a picture of the trailer, preferably from the rear at about 4 ft from the ground which should give the perspective - however I realise this is impossible as you now have the boat on it /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

2 trolley jacks, a couple of pieces of timber and an adjustable spanner are all that should be required to resolve this once and for all - it's not rocket science!

 

[LittleShip]

Come on Major...........stiff upper lip ect.

This is only a minor setback and as others have said it's got to be an adjustment problem.

Anyway...........what would you do with all that free time if you sold her /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif and you still havent been around to visit yet?

Now arrange a full inspection team and go to the pub and discuss a method of attack!

Tom /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[BrendanS]

What he needs is a posse of forumites with toolkits to go and sort it out for him.

 

[Major Catastrophe]

The trailer is the trailer supplied by the dealers as the best trailer for the job. It is an SBS trailer and when this happened before, the boat dealers told me it was set up correctly and no one else was having problems - I suspect because they never look underneath!

As I posted before there is no way of fitting keel rollers so that they will not be in contact with keel when properly loaded as there is only a two inch clearance between axle and keel and the boat cannot be towed with weight taken on keel.

Alistairr, the trailer is known as an Easy Roller and it is designed to load the boat with minimum of the trailer in the water so that the rear rollers lift the boat out.

If you put too much of the trailer into the water, the boat sails over the rear rollers and drives straight into the next obstacle, the axles. So, this time we decided to let the rear rollers lift the boat, but as soon as it was half on, the keel just rested onto the axle and dragged the keel and the new Keel Guard over the axles, ripping it.

I suspect it was also damaged when I launched the boat in June, as the epoxy repair underneath was suspiciously 'soft' and wet and todays recovery turned a small tear in the Keel Guard into a complete rip eight inches long.

Basically, I have lost confidence in a boat I bought so that I could keep it in a marina in Wales and at other times trail it to the Thames, Blackwater, Broads etc when I felt like it, but I cannot afford the repair bill everytime I do.

I have paid a year's marina charge and for the second winter in a row, it will be on my drive sitting on the those very nice and cheap boat stands I got off eBay.

1st September sees the start of the Christmas season for the video games industry and I will be very busy trying to find spare time to clean away anti foul and trying to remove a 'permanent' Keel Guard.

I am pretty low at the moment, as I was really looking forward to getting in some winter boating and even catching one of those mythical Bass.

But, I like the idea of telling the dealers to reset the trailer and test it themselves until they can assure me it doesn't damage the boat.

I can't take pictures ot the trailer as it is in North Wales and I am in Cheshire!

Ironically, I did post this earlier this year. Read what I hand wrote on the packaging.

I did find this and have posted it large size. You will see that the rear rollers are set on the lowest setting and was told this was because the center of gravity would be too high if raised. You can see last years impact damage on the rear axle in the bottom right corner of the picture - the blue paint.

 

[Lakesailor]

[ QUOTE ]

As I posted before there is no way of fitting keel rollers so that they will not be in contact with keel when properly loaded as there is only a two inch clearance between axle and keel and the boat cannot be towed with weight taken on keel.


[/ QUOTE ]

You're missing what I'm saying. The rear roller to divert the keel above the axle needs to be behind the axle so that it lifts the keel about half an inch above the axle. When the array of rollers under the chines take over the keel will be lifted above the axle roller.

I've done it on my brother-in-laws' (smaller) boat trailer. It's not difficult. The trailer engineers you've spoken to are bozos.

 

[Major Catastrophe]

[ QUOTE ]

You're missing what I'm saying. The rear roller to divert the keel above the axle needs to be behind the axle so that it lifts the keel about half an inch above the axle. When the array of rollers under the chines take over the keel will be lifted above the axle roller.

[/ QUOTE ]

But the 1.5 ton weight will still be too much for the half inch footprint that is touching the roller and if the boat is slightly off line on the approach because of the wind it could miss this roller and run up the side of it.

My point is that it should work as it is as Merry Fishers, Ocquateaus, MG's, Rodmans and many other fisher style boats apparently have no trouble and don't have to rebuild their trailers!!

 

[Lakesailor]

All I've got to say to you is : Docking Arms.

 

[JKay]

Chris easy being a couch engineer but those rear rollers look

to low.Can they be raised or moved in wards?

Persevere

cheers Joe

 

[scej]

Why not contact Tony Wyer at SBS trailers and ask his advice you may have to take the boat and trailer to him and pay some money for them to set the trailer up for youbut it would be worth it. Also as you have had this issue from the time that you bought the boat have you thought about rejecting the unit as it is unfit for purpose particularly as you have reported the problem whilst the boat was in warranty and in writing?

 

[xr3i]

Lakesailor is right, Definently needs some central rollers the biggest possible and docking arms. You can obtain these from many sources drill and bolt them on. As for using boat now, bung it in the water and use it unless its holed that is. When you next get it back on the MODIFIED trailer repair it then just give it time to dry out. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[duncan]

whole load of ways to effectively raise them - in situe use the higher mounting holes or put plate between trailer frame and roller mounting frame (may need longer U clamps) or, probably my choice move them about 2 " in towards the centerline. Yes I see this lowers them on the v of the frame but the v of the hull is evene more pronounced so it will create clearance not loose it. This would be dependent on everything else being 'right' but one or other will do the job.

I cannot believe that SBS wouldn;t resplve the issue in minutes if you arranged to tow the boat up to them as already suggested.

I realsie that I am making it sound simple when you ahve already had professionals looking at it but ..............

I wouldn't bother withthe roller - it will just give you the need for even more clearance as contact with it will cause damage to the keelguard in due course.

Equally that trailer set up should be self centering so guide bars aren;t needed either (unless constantly launching in strong cross tides...........)

Sorry you aren't closer..............

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

[ QUOTE ]
the boat dealers told me it was set up correctly and no one else was having problems - I suspect because they never look underneath!

[/ QUOTE ]

Ask them to put you in touch with someone else with the same setup (boat and trailer) and who is not having problems - and compare your trailer setup to theirs.

Just looking at your photo does suggest that the rollers should be on a higher setting, and perhaps also slightly closer together, both of which will help the keel clear the axle. Who told you that the c of g would be too high if the rollers were raised?

Stick to it mate I know it's easy for us all to sit here and flood you with 'helpful' suggestions but we really are on your side.

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[Lakesailor]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't bother withthe roller - it will just give you the need for even more clearance as contact with it will cause damage to the keelguard in due course.


[/ QUOTE ] The contact already has damaged the keelguard so it's important to prevent that on launch/recovery. The roller will do that.
There will still be 1.5" clearance which is only 0.5" less than now.
Packing pieces under the roller arrays as you suggest would recover that clearance.
Docking arms make the task of getting the boat central and avoiding damage very much easier. Before the speed limit on the lake you could spend an enjoyable day at Ferry Nab watching an endless stream of boaters failing to recover their boats easily, usually because they were not centralised on the trailer.

Why argue against a cheap and practical remedy?

 

[Major Catastrophe]

Useful suggestions Lakesailor and others, but when I buy a car, I expect everything to work as per the brochure and not to have to buy suspension or brakes afterwards to make it work better.

The dealers sold me a boat that came with their suggested Easy Launch self centering trailer, so I don't see why I should then have to add rollers and docking arms.

Honestly guys, and I have said this on this post and ones earlier this year, the keel rollers are out of the question. There is not clearence for them and the the boat is not designed to take a spot weight on its keel.

I have made the decision that I will tell them that they can keep the boat until they have sorted out the problem and if they can't then to sell it at no brokerage cost to myself.

I will suggest that they talk to Tony Wyer at SBS, so thanks for the name scej.

No Phil, I am not putting dockings arms on, as I am quite capable of centering the boat on recovery and I am not putting rollers under the keel, the Easy Loader is not designed to work that way, as the roller arrays self centre the boat as they are designed to do and if I take the weight off them with a keel roller, they wont self centre as they used the ridges on the hull to the job.

 

[Giblets]

One quick question MC. Does the rear roller assembly pivot? By that I mean a swinging rear crossmember that the rollers are fixed to.

I have just noticed that the latest range of SBS Sportsboat Trailers all have one keel roller fitted. If the set-up is correct then this roller would only take weight during launch and recovery and not be in contact with the keel during towing.