GT 35

[Aardee]

How do you put a value on whether the drawers are held together with dovetail joints or screws? Both do the same job in the long run, one takes time and skill the other less so.

It's all about whether the extra quality is worth it for you.

I see your point, and I'm more than happy to pay for quality - I think where a lot of the criticism comes from (mine included) is that the first time I saw anything about the GT35 was a review in a magazine...I read the article, looked at the pictures and my immediate reaction was "meh, nothing special", then I saw the price and couldn't believe how much it cost for a "meh" kind of boat with a distinctly Spartan interior. I'm sure it is brilliant, but for the price differential over, say, a Beneteau I'd expect at least a little bit of "wow factor", even just looking at a bunch of pictures in a magazine.

If I point to a Ferrari in the street and ask my 15 year old daughter (who is about as far from a petrolhead as it's possible to get) what car it is, she's instantly say "a Ferrari"...A Ferrari has a tremendous history, image, brand and "wow factor" - You feel special driving one.

I'm in the fortunate position that I'm able to afford nice things...not flashy; but nice, good quality things. I'm sure the GT35 is also a nice, good quality thing, but on paper (which is where most of us start our pre-purchase research) I just don't see what the boat has that's sufficiently special or (as important) would make me feel special in owning one.

 

[rogerball0]

I cant get out of my head how much it looks like a Starlight, and when all's said and done that was a quarter century ago, it has all the looks and style of a Hyundai with the price tag of a Spyker.

 

[doug748]

If you can afford it, why not.

If you can't afford it all the penetrating insights tend to sound like sour grapes or special pleading.


Anyone especially interested in Craftsmanship, Automated Production and Design could equip himself with a copy of this for starters:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Nature-Art-Workmanship-David/dp/0713689315

 

[JumbleDuck]

If you can afford it, why not.

If you can't afford it all the penetrating insights tend to sound like sour grapes or special pleading.

I was thinking more along the lines of "If you can't afford it then the uncritical adulation tends to sound like envy of the rich."

 

[jordanbasset]

Having had a Bavaria I would got for another one, the build quality, attention to detail and reliability makes it an obvious choice for me. I could, on paper, afford a GT 35, but why take the risk

 

[doug748]

Not seen much.... uncritical adulation:


Two people, working in the business, say the boat is good and you can see where the money is spent.

A lot of folk who have never been on board, or even seen the boat, say it is a waste of money and we should all shop at Lidl.


You keep an open mind but who's opinion carries most weight?

 

[rogerball0]

Sour grapes at not owning the yacht equivalent of beige..............mmm; not really no.

This 'hand-built' & 'craftsmanship' arguement is utter rubbish as no modern manufacturer that exists to make a living doing what they do will want to waste any more time than is necessary getting a product out the door regardless of market segment and as i mentioned yesterday Windboats are a fully cnc'd - up facility, fwiw the last dovetail i cut by hand was when i was a nipper, now they get put on a jig and spat out in a couple of minutes.

This; and it is just PR, this perception of an old bloke in half moon glasses with an apron on and a tape round his neck that Snooks and others seek to perpetuate as a reason why this boat should cost an ar$e-widening amount of money is insulting, we're in the 21st century.

Cnc' been around for over 30 odd years and as we all know from the dearth of british boat builders those that adapt to new methods of production survive and those that dont - wont, so again i ask the question why does this boat cost so much?

P.S. Are we too late to get the Barracuda moulds out the skip and get that reworked so the keel doesn't fall off, that'd be classed as a fast cruiser by now?

 

[JumbleDuck]

Two people, working in the business, say the boat is good and you can see where the money is spent.

I don't think anyone doubts that. The big question is about how much of the money is going on useful things, like light switches, and how much is simply compensating for tiny production runs.

A lot of folk who have never been on board, or even seen the boat, say it is a waste of money and we should all shop at Lidl.

You keep an open mind but who's opinion carries most weight?

The customers'. How many GT35s have been sold?

Incidentally, I shop at Lidl. The quality is fantastic, but you do meet a few people who think Waitrose must be better simply because it costs more.

 

[doug748]

We all shop at Lidl, and sometimes at Waitrose.

The boat will probably sell in small numbers. The yard will probably grow a little and then wilt.

I hope not, it will be a shame, but they all seem to go in the end.

 

[AndrewfromFal]

We all shop at Lidl, and sometimes at Waitrose.

The boat will probably sell in small numbers. The yard will probably grow a little and then wilt.

I hope not, it will be a shame, but they all seem to go in the end.

When you say 'Yard' do you mean Windboats? - It's just that they've been around for a while (and never had a brush with insolvency), so one might think they actually know what they're doing. Or does the fact they don't comment here mean basically they know diddly squat.

If you meant GT, there's no 'Yard' to speak of.

Also, whether a boat builder uses CNC machining misses the point. A lot of the points raised about seem to think they are the B-all and End-all and act as some sort of level playing field in terms of quality (rather like the oft repeated misapprehension that if two boats weigh similar, the build quality must be the same).

To give you an example of why they aren't.....I spent part of my summer holiday on the dark side, mobo-ing on a friend's Princess 95. A lot of the components of this boat were made by CNC machines, and the yard's overall production process is impressive, but the damn thing still squeaks and creaks as it moves along. I've also been on considerably more expensive (per tonne) boats, that had a more 'handbuilt' construction process. CNC machines were still used, but a great deal more time, care and human input was put into assembling the finished product. As a result, no squeaking.....

 

[Twister_Ken]

In 1991, Charles Saatchi offered to fund whatever artwork Damien Hirst wanted to make. The result was a shark suspended in formaldehyde, which Saatchi bought for £50,000. In 2004 Saatchi sold it to Steven Cohen for an amount rumoured to be $12 million.

I think very few of us here would even want a dead shark in the front room, let alone be prepared to pay $12 million for it. Steve Cohen is (was?) a highly successful hedge fund guy. It's estimated that for him the shark cost him three days' wages. He bought the shark in the way that you or I might buy a new push bike - say.

What's that got to do with the GT35? Whoever buys boats at those prices (relative to size) can buy them without worrying about value-for-money. They buy because they believe it is the 'best', in the same way that they'd buy a case of Romanée Conti or a Bentley Continental.

Whether or not GT Yachts has the ability and the marketing nous to be perceived as the 'best' is another question. One more question they have to answer - for those where price is not the object, do they want to be seen tooling around in a 35 footer, or is 50 foot plus the more natural territory they inhabit?

 

[JumbleDuck]

When you say 'Yard' do you mean Windboats? - It's just that they've been around for a while (and never had a brush with insolvency), so one might think they actually know what they're doing. Or does the fact they don't comment here mean basically they know diddly squat.

In this case, as I understand it, Windboats are simply the contractor building the thing for GT, just as Northshore were for Victoria and LG are for the Google Nexus 5.

 

[WestwardBound]

, but the damn thing still squeaks and creaks as it moves along.

You were talking about a power boat there, but do AWB yachts squeak or rattle ?

 

[rogerball0]

In 1991, Charles Saatchi offered to fund whatever artwork Damien Hirst wanted to make. The result was a shark suspended in formaldehyde, which Saatchi bought for £50,000. In 2004 Saatchi sold it to Steven Cohen for an amount rumoured to be $12 million.

I think very few of us here would even want a dead shark in the front room, let alone be prepared to pay $12 million for it. Steve Cohen is (was?) a highly successful hedge fund guy. It's estimated that for him the shark cost him three days' wages. He bought the shark in the way that you or I might buy a new push bike - say.

What's that got to do with the GT35? Whoever buys boats at those prices (relative to size) can buy them without worrying about value-for-money. They buy because they believe it is the 'best', in the same way that they'd buy a case of Romanée Conti or a Bentley Continental.

Whether or not GT Yachts has the ability and the marketing nous to be perceived as the 'best' is another question. One more question they have to answer - for those where price is not the object, do they want to be seen tooling around in a 35 footer, or is 50 foot plus the more natural territory they inhabit?

I understand what your saying and there is genuinely no envy or malice in my comments regarding this thread (more disappointment really) as there will always be people to whom this GT is but pocket change but what all these manufacturers have that keep getting mentioned and rather spuriously compared to this GT boat like Rolex, Aston Martin, Bentley, Ferrari is heritage and the GT doesn't have any, the designers world class and that'll have cache to a point and they will sell a handful but largely most of the counterpoints to what i and few others have said critically are 'so-what' points, in the GT' market segment i'd be surprised if you couldn't get a custom interior!

FWIW back in the day making furniture for the......what shall we call them; the upper echelon, i never met one who had a "hang the expense" attitude, granted all of them had very firm ideas of what they wanted and didn't want stylistically but i never had a commisson that said you know "heres a blank cheque" and these were the types with bloody great houses in London. I could never get my head around that until a family member said "how do think most of them make their money, they don't give it away", maybe i was just unlucky..............who knows?

Getting back to the boat I think the sort of people like Steve Cohen will be looking at repro J Class boats and the like rather than very well appointed AWB lookalike but i get your point about costs.

I think after half a dozen have been sold over a couple years this design will quietly disappear.

 

[AndrewfromFal]

You were talking about a power boat there, but do AWB yachts squeak or rattle ?

My point was more that the use of CNC in the construction of a boat (or more correctly it's components) is a red herring when taken as some sort indication of quality/man hours/etc, as I said I've been on other power and sail boat's that didn't squeak. In the case of at least one of the mobos, it was partly because the whole interior was floated on rubber mounts, rather than being bolted directly to the structure.

Do AWBs squeak? That's up there with asking about the religious affiliations of the Pope in my experience! And it doesn't seem to be a peculiarity of particular brand either, sorry to disappoint the partisans.

 

[Aardee]

I understand what your saying and there is genuinely no envy or malice in my comments regarding this thread (more disappointment really) as there will always be people to whom this GT is but pocket change but what all these manufacturers have that keep getting mentioned and rather spuriously compared to this GT boat like Rolex, Aston Martin, Bentley, Ferrari is heritage and the GT doesn't have any, the designers world class and that'll have cache to a point and they will sell a handful but largely most of the counterpoints to what i and few others have said critically are 'so-what' points, in the GT' market segment i'd be surprised if you couldn't get a custom interior!

FWIW back in the day making furniture for the......what shall we call them; the upper echelon, i never met one who had a "hang the expense" attitude, granted all of them had very firm ideas of what they wanted and didn't want stylistically but i never had a commisson that said you know "heres a blank cheque" and these were the types with bloody great houses in London. I could never get my head around that until a family member said "how do think most of them make their money, they don't give it away", maybe i was just unlucky..............who knows?

Getting back to the boat I think the sort of people like Steve Cohen will be looking at repro J Class boats and the like rather than very well appointed AWB lookalike but i get your point about costs.

I think after half a dozen have been sold over a couple years this design will quietly disappear.

You make a very good point - This isn't a boat for the super-rich, it will probably end up as a "stretch" purchase for the comfortably-off.

Certainly if I'm trying to justify spending at what I consider the top-end (Porsche rather than Toyota, Omega rather than Seiko, Pinarello rather than Boardman), the item has to be in some, almost intangible, way "Special". Whether that's due to history/ heritage, image, brand or quality of detail I'm not sure - It's probably a blend of them all. I'm just not sure the GT has that little bit of extra something to make me either spend that bit more, or make me settle for having less for my money...£325k will buy you a big BenJenBav.

 

[pvb]

I think after half a dozen have been sold over a couple years this design will quietly disappear.

I'm a bit confused by this GT35 saga. The boat was announced over 2 years ago. In November 2012, the first GT35 was said to have been sold. The design, and even modules of its interior, have been touted around various boat shows. The first GT35 was apparently delivered to its owner in April this year, yet it's been for sale for some time, with listings on various brokerage websites.

So they've only built one GT35, and after much publicity over 2 years it's still for sale. If it was actually delivered to a genuine buyer, why does he want to shift it so soon if it's supposed to be so good?

 

[AndrewfromFal]

FWIW back in the day making furniture for the......what shall we call them; the upper echelon, i never met one who had a "hang the expense" attitude, granted all of them had very firm ideas of what they wanted and didn't want stylistically but i never had a commisson that said you know "heres a blank cheque" and these were the types with bloody great houses in London. I could never get my head around that until a family member said "how do think most of them make their money, they don't give it away", maybe i was just unlucky..............who knows?

I think it depends whether they are buying things because it's the done thing (i.e. furnishing your house with 'appropriate' furniture), or because they have a deep down burning passion for it. How else would you explain wealthy, self made individuals buying football teams and flushing millions down the toilet in the pursuit of their passion, or the continued existence Horse racing?

 

[pvb]

Do AWBs squeak? That's up there with asking about the religious affiliations of the Pope in my experience! And it doesn't seem to be a peculiarity of particular brand either, sorry to disappoint the partisans.

My new AWB doesn't squeak. But my old Hallberg-Rassy used to creak and groan.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Certainly if I'm trying to justify spending at what I consider the top-end (Porsche rather than Toyota, Omega rather than Seiko, Pinarello rather than Boardman), the item has to be in some, almost intangible, way "Special". Whether that's due to history/ heritage, image, brand or quality of detail I'm not sure - It's probably a blend of them all. I'm just not sure the GT has that little bit of extra something to make me either spend that bit more, or make me settle for having less for my money...£325k will buy you a big BenJenBav.

Exactly. I am finding it difficult to picture the customer who wants to spend so much on what is essentially a very beautifully made and finished AWB. The posers will go for something bigger and blinger; the sailors will spend the money on performance rather than light switches ... are there really that many perfectionists with a taste for the bland?

Or maybe that's unfair. Maybe 35' is around the maximum comfortable size for two people to handle, easy berthing and so on, so once you get to that length the market would prefer to better rather than bigger. In that case, though, I'd expect luxury 35 footers to be a rather bigger part of the market than they currently seem to be.

I'm a bit confused by this GT35 saga. The boat was announced over 2 years ago. In November 2012, the first GT35 was said to have been sold. The design, and even modules of its interior, have been touted around various boat shows. The first GT35 was apparently delivered to its owner in April this year, yet it's been for sale for some time, with listings on various brokerage websites.

So they've only built one GT35, and after much publicity over 2 years it's still for sale. If it was actually delivered to a genuine buyer, why does he want to shift it so soon if it's supposed to be so good?

According to one of the review I saw (not YM, so either PBO or perhaps ST), the first GT35 belonged to the owner of Windboats. If it was a genuine purchase, and not a disguised demonstrator, I too am baffled at why it would be for sale so soon. Perhaps the OP could tell us?