Greek TPP now in play

[Melody]

Melody, my understanding is that all private pleasure vessels operating in Greek waters require one if they are over ten metres in length. That is to be amended to seven metres when the TPP is brought in, as that is the starting point for the TPP. The document doesn't record exits from Greece but does record re-entry: but that is more to do with no one being bothered about when you leave. It seems to have been designed to record all ports visited as there is a space for an entry stamp and a departure stamp for each port. However, it now only needs stamping once a year so it's function would seem, from now onwards, to be a mechanism for recording payment of the TPP.

When the TPP comes in it will be important to visit the PP and get the thing stamped when you leave Greece or if your boat is lifted, as your liability to the TPP stops at that point. No worries if the boat is under 12 metres, as the TPP is a one off payment, important for over 12 metres as you can opt to pay monthly only for the time you're in Greek water or for the time your boat is in the water.

You may well be right. I simply know a DEKPA is for private boats so doesn't apply to us. Greek private yachts may have to have one as well, though I've only ever heard foreigners talk about it.

Don't worry - we have plenty of other licensing and paperwork to deal with on a weekly basis instead so we don't get let off completely

 

[sailaboutvic]

If the TPP every comes in to force is one thing but how it will working is going to be another , I mean really can you see all the hundreds of Italian boat coming over each year for two or three weeks paying 400 E because I can't . It will be another tax the Greeks can't collect has if they haven't got enough problems .
For us it quite straight forward , we will says good bye to Greece for some time and cruise Croatia has it will be hundreds of Euros cheeper for us and a great cruising ground or go back further west to country's we not seen for a while . Like Sardinia and corsica and give Greece a chance to sort it self out .

While I am on the subject of the Greece , I just want to thanks Chris Robb for keeping us non CA members informed on how it all going and the respond his received from the HGC regarding the impounding of yachts , good luck mate and thanks .

 

[vyv_cox]

Like Sardinia and corsica and give Greece a chance to sort it self out .
.

Report from PBO yesterday suggested that Corsica has passed a new bill charging €20/metre/night for anchoring around the island, limited to nature reserves but that is about 50% of them apparently. Suggestion that mainland France will follow. Sardinia tried the same thing about eight years ago but they lost so much business that it was dropped.

It may all come to nothing but the writing does seem to be on the wall for free anchoring everywhere.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Report from PBO yesterday suggested that Corsica has passed a new bill charging €20/metre/night for anchoring around the island, limited to nature reserves but that is about 50% of them apparently. Suggestion that mainland France will follow. Sardinia tried the same thing about eight years ago but they lost so much business that it was dropped.

It may all come to nothing but the writing does seem to be on the wall for free anchoring everywhere.

PBO are a bit out of touch , they have been changeing for anchoring in the nature reserves for some years now ( Tony M will come alone and put us right in a min ) not sure where they got the 20e /mt/night , 12 mts 240 ha , still plenty of over places to anchor even so .
Although you might be right about the writing on the wall , too many boats too many charters willing to throw money around . The only way this will all come to a stop is if the charter market died ( sorry charter company ) and I can't see that happening .

 

[Chris_Robb]

If the TPP every comes in to force is one thing but how it will working is going to be another , I mean really can you see all the hundreds of Italian boat coming over each year for two or three weeks paying 400 E because I can't . It will be another tax the Greeks can't collect has if they haven't got enough problems .
For us it quite straight forward , we will says good bye to Greece for some time and cruise Croatia has it will be hundreds of Euros cheeper for us and a great cruising ground or go back further west to country's we not seen for a while . Like Sardinia and corsica and give Greece a chance to sort it self out .

While I am on the subject of the Greece , I just want to thanks Chris Robb for keeping us non CA members informed on how it all going and the respond his received from the HGC regarding the impounding of yachts , good luck mate and thanks .

Vic, you really should join the CA:encouragement:

I do agree that for the Italians who are here for 2 weeks it will be near on impossible to enforce, or if they do, it will become extremely ugly. People who are there for a season will not be able to escape - except to vote with their bottoms.

 

[Tony Cross]

I know Chris will correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that DEKPA details (and Transit Log details) and TPP payment details are recorded on a computer system to which the PP have access. Thus they'll know who you are and whether you've paid without having to visit your boat. If the PP are incentivised to collect unpaid TPP (perhaps by keeping part of the fine) it might become very difficult to avoid. Given this system I wonder whether the DEKPA has a long term future?

 

[Chris_Robb]

I know Chris will correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that DEKPA details (and Transit Log details) and TPP payment details are recorded on a computer system to which the PP have access. Thus they'll know who you are and whether you've paid without having to visit your boat. If the PP are incentivised to collect unpaid TPP (perhaps by keeping part of the fine) it might become very difficult to avoid. Given this system I wonder whether the DEKPA has a long term future?

I think they only started last year when the DEKPA became mandatory for all over 7 meters. One of the operational questions I will get answered is just that - are older boats recorded yet or will that be done this year as we get our DEKPAS stamped.


I do however think that the Greeks will have a hell of a jib collecting the more short term visitors such as the Italians. I think that the one golden rule of taxation - dont shoot at a moving target - is being broken and it will be very difficult to enforce - especially on the italians. A selfish thought - the Ionian would be a much quieter place without them.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Just to tidy up a couple of points raised so far on this thread.

Since 1st July 2014, DEKPA is required for all EU registered (includes Greek) and VAT paid (imported) leisure boats of other registrations between 7m and 24m LOA which are on the water in Greece. It is not required for to boats on the hard.

The DEKPA is currently used to create a central register of all leisure boats permitted to be afloat on Greek waters.

If and when TPP is authorised to be collected, it is likely that a receipt will have to be held with the DEKPA, and the TPP payment will be recorded on the central register.

TPP does not yet have to be paid by leisure boats.

Commercial boats (includes charter boats) are on a separate register, subject to lower rates of TPP. There are elaborate rules designed to prevent commercially registered boats being used primarily by private owners (an old tax dodging trick).

As soon as The Cruising Association hears that TPP is authorised to be collected from leisure boats, we'll publish the news.

JimB, for the CA.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Vic, you really should join the CA:encouragement:

I do agree that for the Italians who are here for 2 weeks it will be near on impossible to enforce, or if they do, it will become extremely ugly. People who are there for a season will not be able to escape - except to vote with their bottoms.

Chris , we just poor Liveaboard sailor , our red ensign has more patches then my jeans . At time I have to go on the street and play my guitar and sing to earn a few Bob , good job my singing is that bad that people are willing to pay me to stop .

 

[Chris_Robb]

Chris , we just poor Liveaboard sailor , our red ensign has more patches then my jeans . At time I have to go on the street and play my guitar and sing to earn a few Bob , good job my singing is that bad that people are willing to pay me to stop .

Vic - I am sure I will hear your dulcet tones when we arrive in Turkey later this year.....

 

[vyv_cox]

C

PBO are a bit out of touch , they have been changeing for anchoring in the nature reserves for some years now ( Tony M will come alone and put us right in a min ) not sure where they got the 20e /mt/night , 12 mts 240 ha , still plenty of over places to anchor even so .
Although you might be right about the writing on the wall , too many boats too many charters willing to throw money around . The only way this will all come to a stop is if the charter market died ( sorry charter company ) and I can't see that happening .

http://www.pbo.co.uk/news/new-anchoring-tax-in-corsica-21359

 

[vyv_cox]

Back on thread topic for a moment, we have had our 2015 DEKPA stamp this morning at Lakki. No problems and no payment, although the PP retains some memory of older times, insisting on the addition of our next destination to the form.

The yard surrounding the PP office contains about 40 immigrants of all ages, just lying about trying to occupy their time. Their appearance suggests a mixture of African and Middle East people, of all ages.

 

[Tony Cross]

Chris , we just poor Liveaboard sailor , our red ensign has more patches then my jeans . At time I have to go on the street and play my guitar and sing to earn a few Bob , good job my singing is that bad that people are willing to pay me to stop .

I hope you're paying Greek tax on your earnings?

 

[Chris_Robb]

I hope you're paying Greek tax on your earnings?

And give VAT receipts!

 

[sailaboutvic]

C

http://www.pbo.co.uk/news/new-anchoring-tax-in-corsica-21359

Has I said this is been going on for some years now , last time we was there in I think 2012 they where changing then in nature Reserve ,

You see this is why I and so many other are so agust the TPP , if and I still say if this goes ahead in not too long a further you going to find other country's doing the same , for people like myself who sails to maybe three or four country each year it isn't going to be possable too do . It just be too expenses , It a real shame in my view that the RYA and other sailing associates didn't fight this like the France and Germany , I don't want to open up old threads but in time to come if the TPP comes in we are all going to regrate it big time .

 

[sailaboutvic]

I hope you're paying Greek tax on your earnings?

I would but there won't give me an tax number for so little amount , or it could be they didn't want me to start singing in there offices .

 

[marina95]

Vic - are you available for a gig in Porto Heli on or around the 11th June? I could do with some "incentive" when I'm sure I'll be paying them a visit to get our little "local" difficulty sorted!!

 

[sailaboutvic]

Vic - are you available for a gig in Porto Heli on or around the 11th June? I could do with some "incentive" when I'm sure I'll be paying them a visit to get our little "local" difficulty sorted!!

I would love to help out but we should be in Turkey by then unless the Turks have been reading the posting on here , in which case they may not want to sell me a visa .
I let you know I been known to clear noise charter yachts from an anchorages at time , with the cheer of other yachtie who just wanted a little peace and quiet . Some now follow us around knowing well that my singing is sure to move people on .

 

[Melody]

There are elaborate rules designed to prevent commercially registered boats being used primarily by private owners (an old tax dodging trick).

Yes, I can vouch for that!

 

[Palarran]

Report from PBO yesterday suggested that Corsica has passed a new bill charging €20/metre/night for anchoring around the island, limited to nature reserves but that is about 50% of them apparently. Suggestion that mainland France will follow. Sardinia tried the same thing about eight years ago but they lost so much business that it was dropped.

It may all come to nothing but the writing does seem to be on the wall for free anchoring everywhere.

I don't read that it's per night. That would be pretty ridiculous. If it was per season, well, not good but also not going to break the bank.