Greek Coastguard problem

[AndrewB]

A friend has had an engine breakdown in her new (to her) sailing yacht today, and perhaps foolishly, called the Greek Coastguard who towed her into the nearest port, Gaios on Paxos.

They have told her the yacht will not be free to leave until not only the engine is fixed but also the British Consulate declare the yacht, which is British-flagged, to be seaworthy.

Sounds like a problem. Does anyone have experience of this, what is her best course of action?

 

[DownWest]

Think it has been discussed on here before, Worth a search.

 

[RupertW]

The big rule in Greece is never alert any authorities to a problem unless some bodies life is in danger as they may impound the boat and (only from stories on here) insist on a full safety and seaworthiness survey from an official surveyor flown in from Athens at your expense, plus other various high costs.

As I haven't ever called for official outside assistance in the UK or elsewhere I don't see this as a big deal but it could happen so easily...

 

[AndrewB]

Think it has been discussed on here before, Worth a search.

Couldn't spot it. Any idea where?

 

[Davy_S]

This may give you a start.
http://www.ybw.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-430496.html

 

[AndrewB]

This may give you a start.
http://www.ybw.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-430496.html

Many thanks, I'll pass that on but it doesn't sound optimistic.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

They did me in 2012 cost the insurance company 1500 euro in total,for a Greek registry of shipping surveyor to come to check the boat ,he could not find us in the small port of Finikas ,Siros ,about 20 yacht ,with mine the only one with the mast missing, I kid you not.
When asked to step on board he uttered, there`s no need and passed the boat seaworthy.

 

[Yngmar]

The Med Almanac has a warning about this, which basically says if a yacht becomes known to officials as unseaworthy (which is assumed if the coastguard had to tow you in), they are obliged to constrain the boat until it is proved to be seaworthy again. This can only be done by a registered yacht surveyor and can cost from €500-1000. So if they accept a declaration from someone that asks for less than that, consider it lucky.

 

[duncan99210]

The Greeks essentially treat all vessels under the same laws: those that are applicable to merchant ships. If a ship has a declared safety fault, then it's not all that unreasonable to have it surveyed before allowing it to sail. Called a port state inspection (or something similar). In UK there's a clear demarcation in law between leisure vessels and commercial craft with much looser regulation of leisure craft. In Greece, for the most part, all craft are treated the same, hence the need for an inspection/survey before the PP will release the boat. (It's also why you sometimes get presented with a form asking how many tonnes of waste you intend to land...)
It's one of the reasons why flotilla and charter operators tell you to phone them for help and not to send a panpan or mayday unless you really need to. They know that a simple engine problem which a mechanic will fix in minutes might take a week to resolve once the PP get involved. Easy being wise after the event but it's relatively common knowledge in Greece.

 

[vyv_cox]

We berthed next to a Frenchman who had run his boat onto a rock, issued a Pan-pan but managed to free himself. He tried to cancel the pan-pan but was unable. After a great deal of negotiation he managed to get away with a survey of his keel done by an inspector using mask and snorkel. Cost him €600 and a great deal of hassle.

 

[AndrewB]

A bit more today on this story. The yacht owner did not call for help, but rather innocently rang the Greek Coastguard to say she had engine problems and wanted to know if there was a mechanic in Gaios on Paxos. It seems from that point the Coastguard took over, boarded the yacht and towed it into Gaios.

The immediate problem now is that there seems to be no-one in Gaios capable of helping. They have called several mechanics in Corfu and Levkas, but no-one is prepared to go out out to Gaios, specially at this time of year when they are all busy with the charter fleets.

I offered to tow them to Levkas today, but of course PP will not let them go. It looks like they are in for a hard lesson for their inexperience with Greek officialdom.

 

[sailaboutvic]

A bit more today on this story. The yacht owner did not call for help, but rather innocently rang the Greek Coastguard to say she had engine problems and wanted to know if there was a mechanic in Gaios on Paxos. It seems from that point the Coastguard took over, boarded the yacht and towed it into Gaios.

The immediate problem now is that there seems to be no-one in Gaios capable of helping. They have called several mechanics in Corfu and Levkas, but no-one is prepared to go out out to Gaios, specially at this time of year when they are all busy with the charter fleets.

I offered to tow them to Levkas today, but of course PP will not let them go. It looks like they are in for a hard lesson for their inexperience with Greek officialdom.

this may be no good to them , but I be there in two weeks if they stilL having problems find someone to sort out the problem .
other then that they could try Ruairi at the yacht club in Vilho , if he cant help he may know someone

 

[Davy_S]

Ionian boat assistance have a boat fix or rescue type of contract, not heard about them for a few years, i know of someone that used their services for a medical type of transfer, they had a fast diesel rib.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Ionian boat assistance have a boat fix or rescue type of contract, not heard about them for a few years, i know of someone that used their services for a medical type of transfer, they had a fast diesel rib.

yea I forgotten about Calvin

 

[Chris_Robb]

A friend has had an engine breakdown in her new (to her) sailing yacht today, and perhaps foolishly, called the Greek Coastguard who towed her into the nearest port, Gaios on Paxos.

They have told her the yacht will not be free to leave until not only the engine is fixed but also the British Consulate declare the yacht, which is British-flagged, to be seaworthy.

Sounds like a problem. Does anyone have experience of this, what is her best course of action?

The British consulate will reply to the Port Police who have effectively impounded the boat with a standard letter which is badly phrased and which an english speaker will walk away with a different meaning from the Greek Port Police! We had a major argument with the Consulate over the wording and asked them to change it. They wouldn't.

Here is a working copy of their letter (blue text, with comments in Red.

Dear Ms Silverwood Robson

Thank you very much for your very prompt reply!
I note your response and the line that you give to port police.
We think the problem may lie in the wording as a Greek Port Policeman whose English is not good could well take away the wrong meaning.
I am assuming that we are in agreement as to what the law is regarding a British Leisure Vessel under the 24 meters (as opposed to a chartered vessel): That the assessment of a vessel’s seaworthiness is a matter for the owner or captain alone, and that it is not a matter for the Greek port police. If that is the case then we need you to put out a different message to Port Police. I have made notes below against each point in red
We always advise the Greek authorities of the following:

1. This certificate is not required under UK regulations therefore we cannot become involved with arranging any survey
That is correct.
2. if the Greek maritime law stipulates that under the prevailing Greek regulations a survey is required and the subsequent issue of the certificate mentioned above the person responsible for a British yacht is the owner or captain.

This is in line with our understanding above (that the owner or captain is solely responsible) but it could benefit from much clearer wording, as even to me at first reading its message is that a separate survey and certificate is required. The fact that you then refer to the owner and the captain at the end will not be picked up by a Greek. In addition, because this is a confusing sentence (even to a native English speaker) it is likely to be ignored by a Greek who simply doesn't understand it.
An alternative wording for point 2 might be:

“The seaworthiness of a British registered leisure vessel under 24m LOA is the sole responsibility of the captain of the vessel. UK regulations do not require these vessels to have Certificates of seaworthiness.”

3. Subsequently either the Greek authorities should arrange the survey themselves if necessary or advise the owner / captain to approach a local surveyor or their insurance coverer for assistance and advice.

This point 3 is made redundant by point 2 and should not be mentioned at all. You are saying that the Greek Authorities “...should arrange...” or for “...the captain to approach a local surveyor...”. But it is for the captain/owner alone to certify that the vessel is seaworthy, our law does not require a surveyor. So what is the point of this clause? It will never apply. We suspect that the Greek Port Police focus on this statement, partly because they understand it (point 2 as mentioned is confusing) and also because it's the last point and it sticks in their mind.
There may still be an issue that the Port Police still require a certificate just so that they can have a formal paper onto which they can put a stamp and close the file. In which case you might add to the statement that “a certificate will be issued by the Captain, unless he deems it necessary to have a qualified surveyor inspect and certify the vessel.

We gave up with the Consulate as they just refused to budge, and tried negotiating directly with the Port Police - to receive threats from up high that they would subject British boats to the full Greek survey requirements if we persisted - we didn't!

I understand that the Germans do not fall into this trap and that they self certify - but I have no proof on this - anyone know?

 

[Chris_Robb]

A bit more today on this story. The yacht owner did not call for help, but rather innocently rang the Greek Coastguard to say she had engine problems and wanted to know if there was a mechanic in Gaios on Paxos. It seems from that point the Coastguard took over, boarded the yacht and towed it into Gaios.

The immediate problem now is that there seems to be no-one in Gaios capable of helping. They have called several mechanics in Corfu and Levkas, but no-one is prepared to go out out to Gaios, specially at this time of year when they are all busy with the charter fleets.

I offered to tow them to Levkas today, but of course PP will not let them go. It looks like they are in for a hard lesson for their inexperience with Greek officialdom.

Andrew - have they retained the ships papers and issued a proper notice to them? If not, there is nothing to hold them there - just go.

Perhaps a new SSR Reg and just change the name - QED

 

[AndrewB]

Thanks guys for your help and suggestions. I'll post the outcome for the benefit of anyone else in this situation, if and when I hear it.

 

[syrbe]

Our engine failed driving into a Force 5 southerly off Limnos, obviously a fuel problem but I could not find the blockage. We decided that it would be advisable to warn the Coast Guard that we would be sailing in to Myrina harbour without an engine. We got no reply on Channel 16 (they later apologised that they hadn't heard the call because their equipment is very old), but eventually managed to contact them by phone. They checked that we were OK and promised to watch out for us, phoning us back several times to check on our progress and waving to us as we sailed in, where we anchored in the bay without any problem. They asked us to bring our papers to their office and could not have been more helpful, arranging for their chief engineer to come and offering coffee while I waited. When the chief engineer arrived he called his friend who was a diesel engine specialist. I rowed him over to the boat and after some sucking and blowing of diesel he cleared the obstruction. The Port Police (Yiannis) could not have been more helpful and hospitable. The moral of the story is to choose carefully where you break down!

 

[sailaboutvic]

Our engine failed driving into a Force 5 southerly off Limnos, obviously a fuel problem but I could not find the blockage. We decided that it would be advisable to warn the Coast Guard that we would be sailing in to Myrina harbour without an engine. We got no reply on Channel 16 (they later apologised that they hadn't heard the call because their equipment is very old), but eventually managed to contact them by phone. They checked that we were OK and promised to watch out for us, phoning us back several times to check on our progress and waving to us as we sailed in, where we anchored in the bay without any problem. They asked us to bring our papers to their office and could not have been more helpful, arranging for their chief engineer to come and offering coffee while I waited. When the chief engineer arrived he called his friend who was a diesel engine specialist. I rowed him over to the boat and after some sucking and blowing of diesel he cleared the obstruction. The Port Police (Yiannis) could not have been more helpful and hospitable. The moral of the story is to choose carefully where you break down!

I would had said your one very lucky guy , I couldn't tell you how many people we know over the year that got caught up in this scam , I guess the PP office CE both sew a got a bit of an earner out of it . Any way good it worked out for you .

 

[t21]

I suppose similar warning applies with other countries. You call ch16 for help, it ain't like the RNLI.