Greece warning

Melody

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I don't know what Vic uses to post but my iPad often makes a nonsense of spelling. My English is pretty good but I nearly always have to edit to correct strange things the pad has done.

Max and others have referred to myself and others as 'going native' which I guess is supposed to be an insult.

In most ways I run our business the same as I would in the UK so I don't think I' ve gone native. Those who work for us and suppliers we use understand that we operate like a British company, not a Greek one. We have British standards of time-keeping and book-keeping, we treat our staff differently to the way a Greek employer would, we pay our bills more promptly than a Greek would. But we've got to this point through gradual and friendly persuasion over 12 years not by preaching to the people around us that the way they do things is wrong. People can see that we have grown, that we're successful, that what we do works and so are willing to do things our way.

I don't think our British culture is superior in every way to that of a Southern European. It's easier to make money with a northern culture but I think the quality of life is often better with the southern culture. Human beings and relationships, both with family and friends, are more important than big cars or the latest gadgets to most Greeks. They would prefer to earn less and be able to spend more time with their children than to commute several hours a day, for instance.

I like to think we take the best from both cultures, if that's possible, to earn a living but without a lot of the stress I see our UK customers suffering from.

I am pro-EU but I've been very disappointed and angry about how it has handled this crisis. The Europe I want to be part of is one where there is room for different cultures not one where everyone tries to be like a German.

Greek governments have made major mistakes but tinkering about with pensions, depriving families of electricity and food, and making thousands of young people unemployed when they were in no way responsible for taking on the debt is totally wrong in my opinion. Those who were responsible for the debts aren't being punished - it's ordinary people who are suffering.
 

Melody

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Yes, I spend six months a year "Sailing in Greek waters" but I'm no Greek sychophant. They are often but NOT ALWAYS, lazy, fiddling and unreliable in MY 34 years experience of them. I only go for the weather and the scenery but over the years, I've made many, many good Greek friends both in Greece and the UK and ALL share my views of many of their countrymen. (Of whom, incidentally only 38.31% voted for "Oxi" in the so-called "Referendum"

Now, why did Cyprus have the same problem? Well, you said it: "Shared Culture"!

You also seem to defend corruption based upon what you call "Mateship". I would therefore recommend that you NEVER get on the opposite side of a legal dispute against a Greek, for you will LOOSE BIGTIME! However, most UK Ex-pats already know that!

If the Greeks are willing to show that, going forward, they are now willing to play by the rules, then I will support them. Otherwise, let the devil take them!

Returning Sunday for the rest of the summer, as a matter of fact.

Max.

.

With many of Max's posts I'm reminded of the story of the closed room and the two dogs. The first, friendly, dog was put in the room. After 10 minutes he was let out and he came out wagging his tail furiously and acting very playfully. The second dog growled as he was put it. Those outside could hear him barking, growling, and snarling furiously. When he was let out he growled and snarled and tried to bite those around him. What was in the room?

For the record, we've been on the opposite side of a legal dispute with a Greek and won. It took about four years before it came to court but we won, so Max is incorrect in saying you'll always lose. He's right to advise against getting into a legal dispute though. The law is one of the first things here that should be reformed.
 

Max K

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Vic is many things, but he is not fake and is putting nothing on with his posts. I hope he does not mind me saying but he is British and speaks with a London accent, but he does have some issues with spelling. So what, I can honestly say I have met few people as open, honest, helpful and trustworthy as he is, he is the salt of the earth, an ordinary guy with a heart of Gold.
As to his blog, that is sometimes written by his lovely partner Christine, and although Dutch she speaks and writes very good English. I think he deserves an apology from you, but that is of course your choice.

As to the other matter about people confusing you with Steve Cronin, in fairness to them this is an understandable mistake on their part. You do have similar posting style, you both share many of the same views. For example your dislike bordering on hatred of the BBC, Greece, The Labour Party, E.U. etc. Am sure this is a coincidence, you are certainly not alone in sharing those views on the forum.
In addition you started posting regularly here not long after Steve Cronin was banned, again am sure it was coincidence.
You also keep a boat in the Ionian, again am sure it is coincidence.

I notice that Steve Cronin's experience in Greece is recorded here
http://www.ybw.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-338503.html
'We have been cruising Greece on a casual basis since 1978 and more commitedly since 2001 '

I notice your experience in Greece is recorded here
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...ps-the-anti!&p=5330118&highlight=#post5330118
'We have had this boat in Greece since 2001 and regularly visited and sailed here since 1978. When I talk about ordinary Greek people's attitudes, I think I know what I'm talking about.'

Again am sure this is all coincidence, but think you can understand how other people may assume you are one and the same person.

thank you for that information. I will of course communicate with Vic again but I'm not convinced. As to the quotes from Mr Cronin, how did you get those? Whenever I try to make any enquiries about him, I always seem to come up against a blank wall.

Couldn't "Shared likes and dislikes" be down to the fact that these are widely held views, if not majority ones within our country which often grate on some of the types who post on socio-political forums? Incidentally, events of a couple of months ago show that a majority of the country ALSO dislike the Labour Party or didn't you notice that?

Finally, it would seem that you guys either get together quite a lot or exchange a good deal of information behind the "sleeve" of the PM facility.

Max.

.
 
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sailaboutvic

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Thanks for the suppose guys , but you know me , water on a ducks back , after over 11 years posting on YBW I use to people have a go at my spelling and gammer and as they say , stick and stones .
Max K , I Can't work out what I said to get such a personal attack but hey , it seen it don't take much for you to attack any one who don't agree with your views ,

You do make it hard for us to love you Max , which is a shame has deep down we all do . :)
 

Max K

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I don't know what Vic uses to post but my iPad often makes a nonsense of spelling. My English is pretty good but I nearly always have to edit to correct strange things the pad has done.

Max and others have referred to myself and others as 'going native' which I guess is supposed to be an insult.

In most ways I run our business the same as I would in the UK so I don't think I' ve gone native. Those who work for us and suppliers we use understand that we operate like a British company, not a Greek one. We have British standards of time-keeping and book-keeping, we treat our staff differently to the way a Greek employer would, we pay our bills more promptly than a Greek would. But we've got to this point through gradual and friendly persuasion over 12 years not by preaching to the people around us that the way they do things is wrong. People can see that we have grown, that we're successful, that what we do works and so are willing to do things our way.

I don't think our British culture is superior in every way to that of a Southern European. It's easier to make money with a northern culture but I think the quality of life is often better with the southern culture. Human beings and relationships, both with family and friends, are more important than big cars or the latest gadgets to most Greeks. They would prefer to earn less and be able to spend more time with their children than to commute several hours a day, for instance.

I like to think we take the best from both cultures, if that's possible, to earn a living but without a lot of the stress I see our UK customers suffering from.

I am pro-EU but I've been very disappointed and angry about how it has handled this crisis. The Europe I want to be part of is one where there is room for different cultures not one where everyone tries to be like a German.

Greek governments have made major mistakes but tinkering about with pensions, depriving families of electricity and food, and making thousands of young people unemployed when they were in no way responsible for taking on the debt is totally wrong in my opinion. Those who were responsible for the debts aren't being punished - it's ordinary people who are suffering.

They voted for the politicians who asked for and took not only the loan money but also that vast fortune given to Greece over the years, in the form of the "Community Fund Grants" which as I'm sure you know, most of which was either squandered on useless schemes or just embezzled by locals. Just about every village or hamlet in Greece suddenly started sprouting the familiar white and blue signs. Greece is NOT a backward country when it comes to business as you imply they just won't pay their way. We won't even discuss gender equality or fairness! If they want to be a full and respected part of a European Union, like with ANY organisation, the have to abandon some of their ways and behave like a modern country.

Incidentally, I have the Greek Flag and Galanolefci bunting ready to dress ship with on Monday, when Greece eventually decides to bite the bullet instead of the hand that feeds it.

Max.

.
 
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jordanbasset

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thank you for that information. I will of course communicate with Vic again but I'm not convinced. As to the quotes from Mr Cronin, how did you get those? Whenever I try to make any enquiries about him, I always seem to come up against a blank wall.

Couldn't "Shared likes and dislikes" be down to the fact that these are widely held views, if not majority ones within our country which often grate on some of the types who post on socio-political forums? Incidentally, events of a couple of months ago show that a majority of the country ALSO dislike the Labour Party or didn't you notice that?

Finally, it would seem that you guys either get together quite a lot or exchange a good deal of information behind the "sleeve" of the PM facility.

Max.

.

Firstly, I have not communicated with any one via the PM Facility for several months. I did meet Vic in Turkey a couple of weeks ago while I was on holiday and and had a great time. I am now back in the UAE and I believe Vic is still in Turkey

Secondly I did say am sure these matters were a coincidence, including
'I notice that Steve Cronin's experience in Greece is recorded here
http://www.ybw.com/forums/archive/in.../t-338503.html
'We have been cruising Greece on a casual basis since 1978 and more commitedly since 2001 '

I notice your experience in Greece is recorded here
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread...t=#post5330118
'We have had this boat in Greece since 2001 and regularly visited and sailed here since 1978. When I talk about ordinary Greek people's attitudes, I think I know what I'm talking about.'


As I say am sure all these and the other matters are just coincidences, just trying to explain to you why people may think you are the same person as Steve Cronin.
As to Vic, not sure what would convince you, other people have told you the same thing as me, unless you think we are involved in a conspiracy.

As to finding out about Steve Cronin a simple search of the YBW forum brings his name up and from there you can get his posting history. If it helps though the link is here
http://www.ybw.com/forums/search.php?searchid=3504450
For obvious reasons the posts he got banned for have been deleted as they were not nice.
 
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Max K

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Firstly, I have not communicated with any one via the PM Facility for several months. I did meet Vic in Turkey a couple of weeks ago while I was on holiday and and had a great time. I am now back in the UAE and I believe Vic is still in Turkey

Secondly I did say am sure these matters were a coincidence, including
'I notice that Steve Cronin's experience in Greece is recorded here
http://www.ybw.com/forums/archive/in.../t-338503.html
'We have been cruising Greece on a casual basis since 1978 and more commitedly since 2001 '

I notice your experience in Greece is recorded here
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread...t=#post5330118
'We have had this boat in Greece since 2001 and regularly visited and sailed here since 1978. When I talk about ordinary Greek people's attitudes, I think I know what I'm talking about.'


As I say am sure all these and the other matters are just coincidences, just trying to explain to you why people may think you are the same person as Steve Cronin.
As to Vic, not sure what would convince you, other people have told you the same thing as me, unless you think we are involved in a conspiracy.

As to finding out about Steve Cronin a simple search of the YBW forum brings his name up and from there you can get his posting history. If it helps though the link is here
http://www.ybw.com/forums/search.php?searchid=3504450
For obvious reasons the posts he got banned for have been deleted as they were not nice.

Thanks for that.

What do you mean by "Not Nice"? Obscene, racially discriminator or hateful? I have a note somewhere that he was just considered a "Disruptive Influence". I'm sure that many here would qualify for that label?
#
Max.

.
 

jordanbasset

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Thanks for that.

What do you mean by "Not Nice"? Obscene, racially discriminator or hateful? I have a note somewhere that he was just considered a "Disruptive Influence". I'm sure that many here would qualify for that label?
#
Max.

.
Cannot remember all the ins and outs of it now, even if I did would not rehash it now, but at the time it seemed justified under the rules of the forum. He had not long came back from being banned and just would not let it drop. For the record I am not keen on banning people but am also aware I am here under the Forum rules and it is their decision that counts. We are all volunteers here, if we don't like the place and or the rules we can chose to go.
As this is the liveaboard forum and not the lounge will leave it at that
Some times it is better to let sleeping dogs lie.
 

charles_reed

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I think this piece on the Hargreaves Lansdown website gives a much more considered and balanced view of the Greek situation than most of the media and forum comment.

http://www.hl.co.uk/news/articles/greeces-pyrrhic-victory

I'd agree, a balanced criticism of Greek politicians, glossing over the structural inefficiencies of the economy and the fissile nature of the population.
However, now dreadfully out-of-date, as I believe this Greek tragedy is still in its early stages and nowhere near finished.

I can understand Herr Schauble's irritation with successive Greek governments who've agreed to do things and then just not delivered - however the suffering that is being inflicted on the Greek people, is by their own politicians at the instigation of N Europeans with a totally different set of values.
We are just (sadly) seeing the damage being done to the original good intentions of the European Community by the negotiating incompetence of both sides in this worsening situation.
Varoufakis was probably correct in saying the EC had a lot to lose in their dealings with Greece. Pity the EC side didn't see that as well. Read the Guardian and you'll get an impression of how bad the reaction is to the self-mutilation by the EC. (Not that the Guardian has more balanced view than der Spiegel).
I wonder if Lewis' message from the US to Deutschland about their own previous 60% debt forgiveness will have any effect on how the Germans treat the Greeks.
 

Tony Cross

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I'd agree, a balanced criticism of Greek politicians, glossing over the structural inefficiencies of the economy and the fissile nature of the population.
However, now dreadfully out-of-date, as I believe this Greek tragedy is still in its early stages and nowhere near finished.

I can understand Herr Schauble's irritation with successive Greek governments who've agreed to do things and then just not delivered - however the suffering that is being inflicted on the Greek people, is by their own politicians at the instigation of N Europeans with a totally different set of values.
We are just (sadly) seeing the damage being done to the original good intentions of the European Community by the negotiating incompetence of both sides in this worsening situation.
Varoufakis was probably correct in saying the EC had a lot to lose in their dealings with Greece. Pity the EC side didn't see that as well. Read the Guardian and you'll get an impression of how bad the reaction is to the self-mutilation by the EC. (Not that the Guardian has more balanced view than der Spiegel).
I wonder if Lewis' message from the US to Deutschland about their own previous 60% debt forgiveness will have any effect on how the Germans treat the Greeks.

I'm getting worried Charles, we agree! :encouragement:
 
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