GPS anxiety

[billyfish]

Do you get anxious when you read stories of , shall we just say, outside influences, blocking or stopping GPS working, do you still keep charts , log , compass etc on board , I do and when out of site of land record every 1/2 hour. Is this a new anxiety like range anxiety.

 

[jlavery]

I'd say not anxiety, just common sense.

I'm not particularly concerned about jamming/spoofing GPS.

But it's common sense to have alternative methods of fixing position available, in case something goes tips up with GPS.

Like the Americans moving GPS satellites to improve accuracy over Libya when we were going into Tutukaka in NZ. Suddenly no GPS. They've subsequently promised not to do that (the GPS thing, that is) any more.

That's not to say I generally crack on navigating by GPS plotter etc. But I do have an eye on "what if's".

 

[johnalison]

I no longer do long passages but I usually ended up in the right place even before Decca, so I think I could do so again. I haven’t been in the habit of working up my DR since electronic navigation came in but always kept an hourly log with lat/long noted when offshore. My old Raytheon plotter recorded 1/2 hr positions, which was useful, though I always copied these out. I have had the GPS suffer a mental breakdown on occasion, so know to be cautious, though in each case it was only for a few minutes.

 

[Keith-i]

Whilst it’s possible you may lose the gps signal and therefore your position data, you will still have the charts available on your MFD/plotter so no pressing need to carry paper charts albeit paper charts are easier to use than a digital on screen version.

 

[Boathook]

Do you get anxious when you read stories of , shall we just say, outside influences, blocking or stopping GPS working, do you still keep charts , log , compass etc on board , I do and when out of site of land record every 1/2 hour. Is this a new anxiety like range anxiety.

Not normally. I tend to keep a log and also have radar plus paper charts. I might have to play with the plotter controls to show nearby AIS targets as presumably the display will stop moving due to lack of gps signals.

 

[GHA]

Never really consider it. If it was a real concern there would be doo & gloom threads on here every week & the magazines running stories every couple of months. Onboard the Raspberry Pi never gets turned off ever running opencpn 24/7/365 with a watchdog lost position alarm, which never goes off. Any tricky passage would have scribbled passage plan anyway. if the whole system went down might be a well to stay out there for a while, mobile phone towers, the financial markets, lots of things are reliant on gps timing to run, whole lot down then society is having a bit of a meltdown. Got a sextant onboard but that's just a lovely piece of precision engineering. Enough things that might actually happen to worry about.

 

[Supertramp]

GPS is a fabulous advance for walking, cycling, sailing. But I always have a paper chart, albeit not detailed, a paper pilot guide for approaches and port/anchorage entrance and I have and use mounted and handbearing compasses.

I plot my position whenever on passage or beyond "known" waters, but not out of anxiety. More to keep a rhythm and discipline going and to check my tide and timing calculations were correct (or not).

I do not carry a sextant or know how to use one. Loss of GPS would not panic me - I would revert to what I learnt 50 yes ago.

 

[Refueler]

Not normally. I tend to keep a log and also have radar plus paper charts. I might have to play with the plotter controls to show nearby AIS targets as presumably the display will stop moving due to lack of gps signals.

Ha Ha Ha ... AIS ???? That uses GPS to sort position of WHERE that AIS target is ... so you can fiddler as much as you like with plotter / screen - but AIS is no use to you if GPS is 'out' ....

But don't forget that US GPS is not only system and many sat gear today can pick up more than just US sats ...

 

[Poignard]

The only electronic instrument I have that would cause me any difficulty if it failed is the echo sounder.

The days when I carried a leadline and a calibrated bamboo pole are gone. I have become lazy.

Given time, I could improvise a leadline but if my echo sounder failed without warning close inshore all I could do is anchor until I had found a suitable length of line and a weight.

 

[Refueler]

I err to the age old system ...

If I have to dead reckon ... then I purposely run upwind of destination to be sure I can then coast hug down to it ...

I have paper charts ... I also have PC based that can auto DR / EP to give me an idea of where I may be ...

 

[IanCC]

Do you get anxious when you read stories of , shall we just say, outside influences, blocking or stopping GPS working, do you still keep charts , log , compass etc on board , I do and when out of site of land record every 1/2 hour. Is this a new anxiety like range anxiety.

It's worth thinking about. Earlier this year i picked up, on the Navtex, that the navy was going to be practising gps jamming from a spot with a 20 mile radius. Basically portpatrick. I am sure it will have been advertised elsewhere but I wouldn't have known. They did say they wouldn't do it if conditions were not good for trad nav.

 

[boomerangben]

Jamming happens from time to time in various places during war games. I’ve seen the effects a could have times and it can be quite incipient, particularly if you kit is clever enough to DR for a time. I suppose it depends how much you need to know your position

 

[010169]

No anxiety because I do coastal sailing and use charts and buoys and landmarks and keep a log. I use gps as a backup fo sure

 

[fisherman]

Mid 90s off the Lizard, thick fog, ships all round, radar blanked, and then it started to snow, except it wasn't snow, looked like glass fibres. Called the CG who called OC Plymouth, who admitted they were doing chaff exercises. They were told to stop. I can only guess they did it to see how many squeals they got from people like me

 

[HughClayton]

“only the paranoid survive”……GPS is amazing but it’s not a given.

If you don’t know whatever water’s you’re lucky enough to find yourself in like the back of your hand then you’d be a muppet not to be prepared to dead-reckon or navigate yourself to wherever you want to go.

Personally I stick with an hourly fix on the chart and in the log. It’s worked for hundreds years for countless boats so I’m happy to stand on the shoulders of my forebearers and keep myself sailing forwards and neither stressing myself out nor being a muppet!

 

[GHA]

From an AI if the gps system went down (links were provided) Anxiety might be better saved for land.

If the entire GPS system stopped working, land-based systems would face significant implications. GPS is vital for various applications beyond navigation, including timing and non-position-based data. Some systems that rely on GPS for timing and non-position-based data include telecommunications networks, financial systems, and power grids. Without GPS, these systems could experience disruptions and inaccuracies, potentially leading to widespread consequences.One example of a system that uses GPS for timing is telecommunications networks. GPS timing signals are used to synchronize cell phone towers and other network infrastructure. Without accurate timing, the quality of phone calls and data transmission could degrade. In addition, GPS is used to timestamp financial transactions, and a loss of GPS could lead to issues with transaction processing and record-keeping.Furthermore, GPS is crucial for power grid synchronization. Many power grid systems use GPS timing signals to ensure that generators and other equipment are operating in sync. A loss of GPS could lead to instability in the power grid and potential outages.To mitigate the impact of a potential loss of GPS, some researchers have been working on ground-based alternatives to GPS. For example, a ground-based system called SuperGPS has been developed, which uses an atomic-clock time signal distributed using existing optical and microwave telecommunications technologies. This system offers greater positioning and timekeeping accuracy in cluttered urban environments, with an accuracy on the order of 10 cm, which is better than that achieved by GNSSs in many urban areas
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.In summary, the implications of the entire GPS system ceasing to function would be far-reaching, affecting a wide range of land-based systems that rely on GPS for timing and non-position-based data. However, ongoing research into ground-based alternatives to GPS may offer some hope for mitigating these potential consequences

 

[requiem]

I keep charts aboard: they're on the phone, tablet, and laptop. If I need to do traditional nav I just plot traditional fixes on them. With radar and a distinctive shoreline it's even simpler. I'd be more concerned if I couldn't point to my approximate position at any given time, because that would mean I've lost the track and have some serious catching-up to do.

 

[dansaskip]

Yes, still keep paper charts and a written log even if it's "just" a trip down the coast. Interestingly this summer I had a chat with skipper of one of the fast cats that serve the wind farms and was invited for a look around the boat. Well equipped I must say with plenty of electronic navigation aids, but they still have paper charts and are required to keep a handwritten log as well as the electronic one.

 

[dunedin]

It's worth thinking about. Earlier this year i picked up, on the Navtex, that the navy was going to be practising gps jamming from a spot with a 20 mile radius. Basically portpatrick. I am sure it will have been advertised elsewhere but I wouldn't have known. They did say they wouldn't do it if conditions were not good for trad nav.

According to the notices to mariners, the navy do exercises with GNSS / GPS blocking in UK waters (certainly in the areas I frequent) at least twice a year, often covering 3-4 days (albeit only for part of the time in part of the area notified).
And as AntarticPilot and others have said, external influences including solar activity are known to have an ability to impact all GNSS signals.
Low risk but not tiny risk, so worth having considered a contingency approach appropriate to your sailing waters (which will vary if just pootling about doing visual pilotage in known waters vs exploring remote parts in darkness and/or few visual navigation aids)

 

[William_H]

Surely any sailor has in mind where he is where is going and how fast he is going. Yes GPS gives precision and yes it would be difficult without GPS but surely not a reason to worry unnecessarily. Much more to worry about when sailing than GPS failure. ol'will