Hooligan
Well-Known Member
Sounds like the Ferretti 55 to me. I doubt you get a S58 for the budget and if your did you will have to budget for interior refit or do it yourself which JRudge i believe did.
Go Big or Go Home?
- Thread starter GravyStain
- Start date
Bouba
Well-Known Member
Gravy, a word of warning. Any boat can bankrupt you, but nothing is quicker than boat shopping with a bunch of guys who have big boats?
I was reading the other day that John Wayne’s boat nearly bankrupted him several times and he had to take on extra film roles just to pay for it. It’s a warning from history?
???GravyStain
Well-Known Member
Interesting... Why not the 55? I'm obviously wet behind the ears on these things, but I can't see much of a difference?
GravyStain
Well-Known Member
Ouch!Gravy, a word of warning. Any boat can bankrupt you, but nothing is quicker than boat shopping with a bunch of guys who have big boats?
I was reading the other day that John Wayne’s boat nearly bankrupted him several times and he had to take on extra film roles just to pay for it. It’s a warning from history?
I'll bet his was a tad bigger though
MapisM
Well-Known Member
I wholeheartedly agree that the Sq58 is great, and I wouldn't touch a Sq55 with a bargepole.
Anyway, in the list posted by GravyStain, I'd definitely rate the Fer 57 up there with the Sq 58, way above the rest.
Not sure what you don't fancy Ferrettis, but their 57 was an excellent boat: larger, better performing and (imho) better built, compared to the Prin 57.
And in several ways, also vs. the Sq 58, flybridge aside - which in the Sq 58 is hands down the best in class.
Btw, the F57 was built on the same hull of the 55 (actually better known as 165), after getting rid of the separate mould trick that I previously mentioned.
In fact, she could be a great alternative with similar features at a lower price - but only because older, not because less well built.
Rather the opposite, in some ways: the 55/165 was one of the last Ferrettis built under BV certification and designed according to C class cross of Malta specs. A habit that they abandoned in the late 90s, to cut some of the costs that they considered not essential anymore, having firmly established the brand image by then.
Mind, I'm saying all this after I carefully evaluated all these boats (and then some!) during my last search, which I approached with no prejudice whatsoever.
There are in fact several other builders/models that I would carefully consider, in the segment which is being discussed:
Uniesse 55/58, DP 55/56/59, VZ 16/56, Hudson 54, Technema 55.
But I suppose GravyStain would rather stick to widely recognised names, and who am I to argue with that?
Sticky Fingers
Well-Known Member
Does the engine choice skew the view? Ferreti: MAN 1050s. SQ 58: D12 715s
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MapisM
Well-Known Member
Agreed, and the 590 is an even larger boat than the name suggests, btw.
I also like her non-full beam center master cabin arrangement, probably the last of its kind, before Ferretti had to introduce the oh-so-fashionable full beam master also in sub-60 footers for marketing reasons.
She still has also the lower galley, which of course has it cons, but overall her layout is one of the last designed to exploit the most optimal space usage, which again, is crucial in anything under 60' or so.
Oh, and her f/b is to die for, with double biminis (both MUCH larger than those of the Sq58, which are already excellent).
BUT, that particular one is equipped with engines widely recognised as the worst ever built by MAN.
I would strongly recommend to anyone interested in a F590 to look for the 1100 CRM instead, which was introduced in the last couple of years of the production run, IIRC.
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Sticky Fingers
Well-Known Member
OK so that's material then and not how I expected it...!
What's the problem with the 1050s? (...asking for a friend
)
MapisM
Well-Known Member
You would be shocked by how smaller the first looks inside a Fer 590 e/r, compared to the latter inside a Sq58.
And we are talking of 18+ liters V10 engines vs. 12 liters inline 6 respectively.
Sticky Fingers
Well-Known Member
So is the 1100 radically different?
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
At this sort of age I think engine condition would be more important than engine type. Certainly a full engine survey under load with an oil analysis is an absolute must
Sticky Fingers
Well-Known Member
Makes sense. That said it's quite a diff 1050/1100 vs 715
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MapisM
Well-Known Member
They were based on an early semi-electronic technology, phased out way before it had time to mature, when MAN decided to adopt the common rail on their whole range.What's the problem with the 1050s? (...asking for a friend
Besides, the V10 block was the less balanced of the three (the V12 being the best, followed by the V8), and it was in fact dismissed completely a few years after the introduction of the 1100hp common rail.
So, I'd rather avoid V10s altogether, but while the best version of it was the last fully mechanical one, rated at 820hp and widely considered a workhorse, the only decent electronic version was the last CRM/1100.
The 1050 being the problem child in between, so to speak.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Agreed. But better start with solid engine models produced in high numbers, if at all possible...
Portofino
Well-Known Member
The sq 58 nice as it is , is underpowered with 715 .
The 1050 MAN is actually a good un .
Mapishm barking up the wrong tree ,
From my FB marine diesel maintenance site take a look at this he refers to a 48 sport fisher Cabo I believe a member is enquiring about .
“Mangrenade
1050 are a good engine no major problems. The 1200 v12 are the “man grenadines” had a weak valve keeper that like to drop a valve or two.
I would be more concerned about the hours being so low. Usually that’s when you get rotten intercoolers and stuck piston rings. I would run a compression check at the vary least(should be up around 30 bar any thing close to 20 bar is a problem.
*MAN tech for 7 years “
Hope this helps .
But as Mike says at this age once out of warranty it’s all about the history and any surveys the op does .
Any V10 damper issues will be history by now as the V12 weak valve keepers .
I have helmed both the V 10 and V 12 Itama 62 same blocks the latest V 12 1360 we saw 42 knots flat out .
The 1050 MAN is actually a good un .
Mapishm barking up the wrong tree ,
From my FB marine diesel maintenance site take a look at this he refers to a 48 sport fisher Cabo I believe a member is enquiring about .
“Mangrenade
1050 are a good engine no major problems. The 1200 v12 are the “man grenadines” had a weak valve keeper that like to drop a valve or two.
I would be more concerned about the hours being so low. Usually that’s when you get rotten intercoolers and stuck piston rings. I would run a compression check at the vary least(should be up around 30 bar any thing close to 20 bar is a problem.
*MAN tech for 7 years “
Hope this helps .
But as Mike says at this age once out of warranty it’s all about the history and any surveys the op does .
Any V10 damper issues will be history by now as the V12 weak valve keepers .
I have helmed both the V 10 and V 12 Itama 62 same blocks the latest V 12 1360 we saw 42 knots flat out .
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
Thinking of engines.
I had Volvo D12s in our old Sealine and didn't have any problems.
But I didn't really keep the Sealine long enough.
At the age of boat that we are discussing, the Volvo D12 itself can present some considerable expence.
I refer to the dreaded exhaust elbows.
Others on here might be able to correct me but about 10 years into a D12, you may find expensive exhaust elbow replacement.
I believe that it is the angle that the engine is set and moisture collects thus corroding the elbow.
Maybe this shouldn't put a potential buyer off because it is an easy (but expensive) fix.
I believe that most of the SQ58s and the P57's would be on Volvo D12s.
The early D12s (like the ones I had) were 575 HP - (from memory) later they were upgraded to 715HP
Maybe others on here will agree or disagree.
As I say - quite fixable.
I had Volvo D12s in our old Sealine and didn't have any problems.
But I didn't really keep the Sealine long enough.
At the age of boat that we are discussing, the Volvo D12 itself can present some considerable expence.
I refer to the dreaded exhaust elbows.
Others on here might be able to correct me but about 10 years into a D12, you may find expensive exhaust elbow replacement.
I believe that it is the angle that the engine is set and moisture collects thus corroding the elbow.
Maybe this shouldn't put a potential buyer off because it is an easy (but expensive) fix.
I believe that most of the SQ58s and the P57's would be on Volvo D12s.
The early D12s (like the ones I had) were 575 HP - (from memory) later they were upgraded to 715HP
Maybe others on here will agree or disagree.
As I say - quite fixable.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
No problem PF, you stick to Facebook, I stick to MAN engineers I actually spoke with in person.
The only thing I'd be curious to hear from your chap is the code name (D2842...?) of the engine he's referring to, because I just checked my MAN engine lists from 2002 onward, and couldn't find any 1200hp V12.
BTW, while I was at that, I also checked another thing I had in mind but wasn't 100% sure of, and was confirmed by those engines lists:
In the commercial range, no V10 block has ever been classified for heavy/continuous duty.
6L, V8, V12 - for all of them there are lower rpm/power versions with continuous rating.
But no V10, ever. It looks like at MAN they know something we don't.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
I use all info available and ask questions .This is a man guy and others have collaborated.
You looked too late @ 2002 and missed it .
2842le404 From 98 to circa 2000 where it increases to 1300 and so on .
By then they changed the valve keeper and I suspect did a retro fit campaign ,
scroll down and click on “WANI KANATI “eg a 1999 MAN 1200 Hp 2842 le 404 .
Also “ Pipe Dream “ a 2000 year boat has had an upgrade to 1300 at some stage ,
The Viking 55 Convertible (1998–2004) is a modern classic. Five of the best are listed with HMY. | HMY Yachts
Just highlighting the specific model they had trouble with the 2842 le 404 and the specific component the “ valve keeper “:, the years 98-2000 etc .
As said by now any issues would be have been dealt with by now .
As far as your last para the absence of a V10 de rated version and subsequent dropping I do not think you can read anything into that other than with the advent of CR + other stuff , possibly the hp range overlaps from the more compact V8 s which renders the V10 redundant in leisure boats as its top Hp encroachs on the V12 s lower overlap .
Guessing just a bean counters consolidation housekeeping excerise ? Too much overlap .
see here it’s simply been squeezed out Hp wise .
Product range | MAN engines for yachts | MAN Engines
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GravyStain
Well-Known Member
Why so little love for the Squaddie 55 guys? Please enlighten me...
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Is it this modal of 55 ?
It’s difficult ( Covids not helping ) but I always suggest going out for a ride at a wet show in a prospect .
Many on here are equally happy with what they see in mags and static displays.
Compromise wise somethings got to give , you will be only running round @ circa 20 knots mid season with a D12 squadron .
That s why the second boat is the keeper argument comes in .
Your first you discover what you like ,what you do not like , and watch others thus formulating a best wish list .
Most on here have been through this process and ended where we are .
Could you buy some hard standing property and initially a small day / over nighter boat .
To taste med boating .
To see , watch and absorb .
To mix and match the holidays , wife and kid may feel more comfortable in the land based accommodation while dads at home working .Letting potential?
Then upscale the boat using your own judgment on what you need , like , want .
Fairline Squadron 55 MK 2 2009 MY – Advice wanted please
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