Go Big or Go Home?

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Finally absolutely check that the intercoolers are all clean because they get clogged up and should in my view be cleaned out every two years. Best way to see any problem is run the boat up to 1800/1900 revs and if the coolant temp runs higher than 86 they need cleaning or are going to need cleaning in a short period of time.

FWIW, cleaning the intercoolers every 2 years is a requirement of the MAN service schedule, certainly for the D2842 series engines. Not sure about the other engine models. And youre right, it does seem to make a difference. When I first bought my current boat, which has these MAN engines, I used to get weeps of coolant in the bilges which I eventually traced to the overflow pipe under the thermostat cap. Having the intercoolers cleaned after the first season cured that and dropped the coolant temp by 2-3degC. I now have the intercoolers cleaned every 2 years religiously despite the humungous cost

 

[Bouba]

I was about to get mine done when we went into lockdown

 

[MapisM]

I use all info available and ask questions. This is a man guy and others have collaborated.
You looked too late @ 2002 and missed it .
2842le404 From 98 to circa 2000 where it increases to 1300 and so on.

Porto, using all info available is well and good in principle, but these days the bigger problem is that there's way too much of what theoretically should be a good thing.
What you really want is to separate the wheat from the chaff, first and foremost.

Your "MAN guy" should get his facts straight, because:
1) the D2842LE404 was their very first electronic (EDC, not CRM) V12 block, designed for 1300hp throughout its whole production run, and I rest my case that a V12/1200 never existed.
2) it was designed and built right in parallel with the D2840LE403 (V10 1050hp), using the very same (flawed) EDC technology, and has exactly the same heads/valves (I just checked the part numbers).

So, saying that the V12 LE404 "dropped the valves" and the V10 LE403 was "a good engine" is just ridiculous.
BTW, don't be fooled by the code misalignment (404 vs. 403) for engines of the same vintage, this is not unusual in MAN lineup.
I suppose in this particular case the reason was that when they announced the V10/1050 together with the V12/1300, the "LE403" code was already taken for the V12 by its heavy duty version, rated for 720hp/1800rpm.
Heavy duty version that as I said never existed for any V10.

Mind, all the above neither comes from my memories, nor from FB or any other BS.
I just checked that on MAN brochures/parts lists/specs sheets - which I can email you if you're interested.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I suppose in this particular case the reason was that when they announced the V10/1050 together with the V12/1300, the "LE403" code was already taken for the V12 by its heavy duty version, rated for 720hp/1800rpm.

Whats the difference between LE403 and LE443 (as my engines are designated)?

 

[MapisM]

AFAIK, the Sq55 Mk1 morphed into the Sq58 which was one of Fairline's best selling boats and comes from an era when Fairline were at the top of their game so IMHO this Sq55 would be well worth looking at, assuming that its condition is good and the price is fair

Define "morphed", M.
They were two totally different boats, made out of completely different moulds, and the size difference is larger than the name implies, because the 55 is much narrower (by almost one foot IIRC, which as you know is a massive difference on a boat of this size).
The general internal layout is the only thing that is vaguely similar, albeit obviously much more squeezed in the 55.

There's plenty of good reasons why the 58 became a best seller and the 55 didn't, because with the former they fixed everything that was wrong in the latter:
They moved the side door to the right side (near the stbd helm, rather than on port side, near the internal stair);
They made the e/r accessibility good enough - not great, mind. But in the 55 was simply unacceptable.
They redesigned the f/b completely, actually making it the best in class, while it was below average in the 55.
I also recall to have seen aluminum fuel tanks on the 55 which I inspected, which looked awful.
I actually can't remember what sort of tanks they fitted in the 58, but they couldn't have made them worse if they tried.
Also the materials used looked generally cheaper in the (only) 55 than I've seen vs. the few 58s.

These are in a nutshell the reasons why I ruled out the 55 right after I saw one in flesh, while a 58 would have made it to the highest positions of my preferences, if it weren't that I didn't find one at the right balance of price/conditions.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Define "morphed", M.
They were two totally different boats, made out of completely different moulds, and the size difference is larger than the name implies, because the 55 is much narrower (by almost one foot IIRC, which as you know is a massive difference on a boat of this size).
The general internal layout is the only thing that is vaguely similar, albeit obviously much more squeezed in the 55.

There's plenty of good reasons why the 58 became a best seller and the 55 didn't, because with the former they fixed everything that was wrong in the latter:
They moved the side door to the right side (near the stbd helm, rather than on port side, near the internal stair);
They made the e/r accessibility good enough - not great, mind. But in the 55 was simply unacceptable.
They redesigned the f/b completely, actually making it the best in class, while it was below average in the 55.
I also recall to have seen aluminum fuel tanks on the 55 which I inspected, which looked awful.
I actually can't remember what sort of tanks they fitted in the 58, but they couldn't have made them worse if they tried.
Also the materials used looked generally cheaper in the (only) 55 than I've seen vs. the few 58s.

These are in a nutshell the reasons why I ruled out the 55 right after I saw one in flesh, while a 58 would have made it to the highest positions of my preferences, if it weren't that I didn't find one at the right balance of price/conditions.

You know a lot more about Fairlines than I do! Not difficult! I had it in my head that a Sq58 was a later version of the Sq55 because the layouts are so similar

 

[MapisM]

Whats the difference between LE403 and LE443 (as my engines are designated)?

Just by heart, I'd say big: yours are CRM rather than EDC, and 4 rather than 2 valves/head, to start with.
I believe the block basament and the stroke were still the same, though - IIRC they were only changed with the 1000hp V8 and the 1550 V12 (by which time the V10 had already been phased out).
I'll have a look at my files and will add anything else relevant I might find out.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Just by heart, I'd say big: yours are CRM rather than EDC, and 4 rather than 2 valves/head, to start with.
I believe the block basament and the stroke were still the same, though - IIRC they were only changed with the 1000hp V8 and the 1550 V12 (by which time the V10 had already been phased out).
I'll have a look at my files and will add anything else relevant I might find out.

Basically I'm asking how long my engines are going to last before they mangrenade?

 

[MapisM]

I wish I knew for my engines either, but whoever said that ignorance is bliss did have a point!

 

[markc]

I wish I knew for my engines either, but whoever said that ignorance is bliss did have a point!

Wait for it....

 

[Portofino]

Porto, using all info available is well and good in principle, but these days the bigger problem is that there's way too much of what theoretically should be a good thing.
What you really want is to separate the wheat from the chaff, first and foremost.

Your "MAN guy" should get his facts straight, because:
1) the D2842LE404 was their very first electronic (EDC, not CRM) V12 block, designed for 1300hp throughout its whole production run, and I rest my case that a V12/1200 never existed.
2) it was designed and built right in parallel with the D2840LE403 (V10 1050hp), using the very same (flawed) EDC technology, and has exactly the same heads/valves (I just checked the part numbers).

So, saying that the V12 LE404 "dropped the valves" and the V10 LE403 was "a good engine" is just ridiculous.
BTW, don't be fooled by the code misalignment (404 vs. 403) for engines of the same vintage, this is not unusual in MAN lineup.
I suppose in this particular case the reason was that when they announced the V10/1050 together with the V12/1300, the "LE403" code was already taken for the V12 by its heavy duty version, rated for 720hp/1800rpm.
Heavy duty version that as I said never existed for any V10.

Mind, all the above neither comes from my memories, nor from FB or any other BS.
I just checked that on MAN brochures/parts lists/specs sheets - which I can email you if you're interested.

What are trying to say ?

The V12 1200 Hp did exist and it’s the one from 98 to circa 2000 because of its valve keepers that started the “ mangrenade “ rep .
20 years ago then fixed by the next generation the 1300 . [@ Mike sleep easy yours is not one of theses , but I think you know that ] .
Did you not open the links I posted on #276 , those 98/2000 Vikings had 1200 v12 s ? Interestingly on 4000 hrs btw .

Just Google V12 MAN 1200 .

MAN D2842LE406 Diesel Engine - DieselEngineMotor.Com

 

[Portofino]

882 kw = 1182 Hp rounded up to 1200 as is the convention .
it’s on eBay taken out of a S/Sker in 97 with 2500 hrs .
It’s a chuffing V12 !!! mate

 

[Portofino]

@ MapishM.......from Italy with love under your own nose .
I will “ rest my case “
scroll down to utube vid to see it running folks .
MAN D2842 LE406, Marine Diesel Engine, V-12 1200HP | eBay

 

[Bouba]

Wait for it....

That wouldn’t just leave you dead in the water, it would sink you

 

[Portofino]

So the “valve keepers “ are little cone shaped things that lock the stem to the cap .
If they fail the valves drop and the the engines toast .

A vid of where they fit

@ MapisM your parts cat guide will NOW be identical because from 2000 MAN changed the thing and I suspect retro fitted the newer part ? They certainly won‘t sell you some of the duff batch from 97-2000 .That’s hopefully explains your parts catalog issue .?
Does this help ?

 

[Portofino]

That wouldn’t just leave you dead in the water, it would sink you

Shouldn’t be able to over Rev it to destroying if the props been correctly matched .
Who runs about at WOT ? Or over the rated WOT rpm ?

I stick to 80 % load and leave them there , affording some mechanical sympathy as they are 17 y old now .

 

[markc]

"is this the 5 minute argument or the full half hour?"

 

[Bouba]

Shouldn’t be able to over Rev it to destroying if the props been correctly matched .
Who runs about at WOT ? Or over the rated WOT rpm ?

I stick to 80 % load and leave them there , affording some mechanical sympathy as they are 17 y old now .

I think the engine in the video was being tuned up for a diesel drag race

 

[Hooligan]

I'm not that familiar with Fairlines but AFAIK, there are Squadron 55s and Squadron 55s.
When I said "not the 55" I was thinking about the current design which I think the cost would be too much for this budget.
And I was comparing it with the old Squadron 58 which has been around for a long time and has that "classical" look.
The 58 is also a very well respected boat.
That said, I would still put the P57 up against the Sq58

But how about going a lot cheaper and looking at much older Squadrons.
The Squadron 56 for example.
A friend who is also on this forum has one that he keeps in Sant Carles
It is a great boat - young enough to have electronic throttle controls - i.e. not old enough for the 4 lever engine controls.
With all the trimmings that you would expect from a Squadron - just a little older.
I've been on his boat a few times - once in some big seas which she handled perfectly.

There is one in Sant Charles that may be the one but looks like its on for over 600k......there is a 2002 one in Spain Porto Banus that looks good value at 240 ish.....has had a refit so probably resolved the interiors. Obviously engines need checking and didn’t see the hours

 

[GravyStain]

There is one in Sant Charles that may be the one but looks like its on for over 600k......there is a 2002 one in Spain Porto Banus that looks good value at 240 ish.....has had a refit so probably resolved the interiors. Obviously engines need checking and didn’t see the hours

1475 hours on the engines. But the colour scheme on the refit is ...'different'...

2002 Fairline Squadron 58 Power New and Used Boats for Sale -