Getting stanchions out?

[Quandary]

Our boat, a Moody S31 (with the now unfortunate name Corona) had inward bent stanchions when we bought it and the condition has been exacerbated by the force of this winters storms on the covers. So I decided to reverse them to gain a bit more space to get by the shrouds. The six stanchions are tapered stainless steel 60cm, in cast alloy sockets bolted to the alloy toe rail both horizontally and vertically. Two came out without too much resistance, tapping a steel bar passed through the middle hole upwards after a good dousing with boiling water, but these two did not have the plastic separating membrane between steel and alloy. A third one was extracted using a bottle jack between a bar through the central hole and the alloy socket, hardwood block shaped to ensure the load went to the top of the socket casting rather than the deck. ( I am quite worried about displacing the toe rail or damaging the deck) The remaining three refuse to move, I have tried hot water, silicone lubricant and WD40, these do penetrate but no movement results. I am hoping for a less windy day when I may be able to apply the jack while heating the socket with a blow lamp. The jack that fits is only one ton, I have a 5 ton jack but it is too big to get close enough and the steel bar is just bending.
Failing that I might have to remove the sockets but I am worried that the two vertical bolts (countersunk machine screws) may go through the deck as well as the toe rail and have inaccessible nuts somewhere behind the furniture.
Anyone managed this, is there a technique that I should be trying?

 

[TonyMS]

I usually unscrew the stanchion base and take the lot home. Then, cut off the stanchion a few mm above the base, mount the base in a vice, thread a hacksaw blade though the base and cut two grooves in the stanchion residue opposite each other, until the two pieces can be easily tapped out. This saves the base (which in my case is irreplaceable), but sacrifies the stanchion, which was bu**ered anyway.

 

[zambant]

Good luck....watching this with interest. We have been trying for 2 years - 2 hours per mont - to get ours apart!!

 

[johnalison]

WD40 does very little. Freeing oil such as PlusGas might well work. I had an obstinate deck filler, actually emptier, and the PlusGas needed a week's soak before it freed. In the end, it might come down to using heat, though.

 

[RJJ]

I used GT85 plus an electric heat gun to ease off my outboard clamp screws

 

[Concerto]

I am hoping for a less windy day when I may be able to apply the jack while heating the socket with a blow lamp. The jack that fits is only one ton, I have a 5 ton jack but it is too big to get close enough and the steel bar is just bending.

I would not use a blow lamp as this may burn off your anodising, which you certainly do not want to do in a marine environment with stainless steel. Use a heat gun and try and have something that retains the heat wrapped around the stanchion base.

 

[GregOddity]

This one is from a Bavaria 42 pushpit. The pushpit needed repairs but the stanchion base would not budge after heat gun and WD40. The issue even with the plastic sleeve is that the plastic degrades with the UV and it breaks of until it recedes inside the base, that allows a little film of salt water accumulate there that will create galvanic corrosion. Plus, the salt tends to crystalize inside the base and the heat gun becomes useless. This one had a lump of salt inside but I did not take a pic. Normally I just cut them off without much thought and get on with it. But that's a professional decision as if I charge 1 hour of my time to remove a base it will be more expensive then a new one. Jack, hammer etc will not generally move them. Sometimes not even in a vice can you get them free. This one is a fine example of that. You may try to soak it in drilling oil for a few days. That may help. But on the boat ? Good Luck.

 

[Daydream believer]

Perhaps a single slit down the most accessible side with a dremel to relieve the tension. If you get it out you can put a bolt through the whole unit afterwards at right angles to the slit to keep it tight. I would suggest a slit on inner edge would be best to give greatest support to the post when re fitted. That would depend on how easy it is to get to it.
To help the slitting process a series of very small holes first might help. You could keep them in line by clamping some sort of guide on first made from a slotted piece of half a copper pipe clamped higher up so the slot extends along the line you want to drill. Centre pop the points first & use a centre drill to get the holes started.Drill between the slot. Then run the dremel down the drilled holes.
A thin steel wedge made from a small cold chisel driven into the slot then a heat gun onto the socket may do the trick. Grip the post with a set of stillsons & twist first to break the bond. Pull upwards on the handle as you twist
I assume that you have tried twisting with large stillson pipe wrench already!!!!!!

 

[Quandary]

My latest plan is to bore a 1" hole through two pieces of 6"x2", slip one down on to the top of the base casting, then place the jack on top of it, slide the other one down to just below the middle hole, put the bar through on top, cut a piece of timber the same height for the opposite side to balance the forces and apply as much pressure as the jack can give, while under pressure then I plan to whack, heat, lubricate and swear a lot at it. I will try this on each in turn before resorting to the more extreme measures suggested above. Unfortunately the big jack will not fit in the space created but I may look around for a squat one as the 1 ton jack I am using is old and probably down on power.
I have tried bending back and forth to work the lubricant down and twisting with the bar through the middle hole,but will continue with that too, still far two windy to use the gas torch.
Does anyone know whether the vertical machine screws are likely to go down through the deck or are just tapped in to the toe rail, Moodys were made by Marine Projects and I suspect they would probably use the same mehod on any of their boats.

 

[GregOddity]

I like your plan, especially the swearing part. I find it helps a lot in my case. The only problem you will have is actually the “film” of oxide that built over time. If you look at the pic I posted you can see the white stuff and even some flakes. I don’t want to discourage you but for something that on the face of it looks so simple… well it ain’t. Most often then not even with a good jack they refuse to come out. Hopefully the screws are easy to get to. I would start there before you damage gelcoat etc. Have you actually checked to see if have access under the stanchion area?

 

[Quandary]

Yes I have looked, S31s are very well lined inside with a big grp head lining extending to the hull which has lockers in font of the positions so I am reluctant to tackle that method, yet. I suspect if they do not come out I may abandon the effort.

 

[Concerto]

still far two windy to use the gas torch.
Does anyone know whether the vertical machine screws are likely to go down through the deck or are just tapped in to the toe rail, Moodys were made by Marine Projects and I suspect they would probably use the same mehod on any of their boats.

Please read my earlier post about a gas torch, you will remove the anodising from the alloy fitting.

I would expect the stanchion to be through bolted. Not sure if you can get directly at the nuts internally, Westerly always glassed over them for extra waterproofing to stop leaks. Never had to check on a Moody.

 

[GregOddity]

Yes I have looked, S31s are very well lined inside with a big grp head lining extending to the hull which has lockers in font of the positions so I am reluctant to tackle that method, yet. I suspect if they do not come out I may abandon the effort.

In an ideal world you would find a moody owner that had the same problem before. I suspect quite a few had to renew stanchions because they hit something, although interestingly when I ask how stanchions were bent most tend to reply they were hit. Very seldom do you find someone that actually hit something. How bizarre.

Please read my earlier post about a gas torch, you will remove the anodising from the alloy fitting.

I would expect the stanchion to be through bolted. Not sure if you can get directly at the nuts internally, Westerly always glassed over them for extra waterproofing to stop leaks. Never had to check on a Moody.

Yeah you don't want a Gas torch near that.

 

[Resolution]

Found an old Sigma 33 stanchion base lurking in my garage. Also Marine Projects of course, but the Sigma ones had two horizontal bolts through the toenail, plus one only vertical bolt through toenail and deck. The vertical ones must have had nuts on the underside, coz I remember getting stuck in a cupboard whilst replacing one............

 

[Quandary]

Found an old Sigma 33 stanchion base lurking in my garage. Also Marine Projects of course, but the Sigma ones had two horizontal bolts through the toenail, plus one only vertical bolt through toenail and deck. The vertical ones must have had nuts on the underside, coz I remember getting stuck in a cupboard whilst replacing one............

Yeah, I think I remember those, they used to split as the corrosion built up inside but they must have been more accessible because replacing them was no great problem. I managed to remove three today, but the other three have decided they are not coming out, the jack broke two pieces of 6x 2 before I gave up. The ones that did come out had a considerable build up of a solid clear white salt on the alloy and I presume that is what is clamping the others so firmly. Unless I can find a solution that will dissolve this layer the only cure will be to replace the bases perhaps with custom made stainless steel ones but I do not plan to tackle that unless I find a lot more motivation from somewhere, I have already replaced all the acrylic for windows and hatches and I have just got a bill for £560 for putting a new uv strip on the genny. used to be able to buy a sail for that!

 

[vyv_cox]

Hydrochloric acid will dissolve the deposit. It also attacks some aluminium alloys but slowly, wash thoroughly afterwards. I have used HCl several times for similar jobs, works very well.

 

[dgadee]

I did this a couple of winters ago (Seawolf 30). A nightmare. Took me days and days. I ended up cutting the stanchions near the base and grinding out the welded in bits. And it was freezing when I did it.

I had picked up replacement stanchions at a very good price - which was what started me off on the task.

I will have to remove the tight ones this year just to make sure they don't stick again.

 

[vyv_cox]

Stainless steel antenna fitting in an aluminium bracket, treated with 6% HCl. The fitting was absolutely unmovable but within 5 minutes of HCl treatment almost fell out.

 

[Quandary]

Hydrochloric acid will dissolve the deposit. It also attacks some aluminium alloys but slowly, wash thoroughly afterwards. I have used HCl several times for similar jobs, works very well.

Cheers Vyv, sounds like an answer, it is beginning to sound as if we may not get launched this year so I will give it a try, I will mask the toe rail and the outside of the alloy base fitting with duck tape or similar. I will report in due course though it may not be for some time.

My thanks for all the contibutions.

 

[Graham376]

I had exactly the same problem when trying to remove our damaged Moody pulpit. No way would the stainless come out of the bases so in the end just cut off and bought new original type bases @ £55 each and that price was about 10 years ago.