Getting off a pontoon finger berth solo - with wind blowing off

[dunedin]

Thanks, though not the solution I am afraid.
Interesting approach, but he himself says that it doesn’t keep the stern in if blowing off - which is the primary issue.
He got his crew to release a stern rope to cover this situation - Ie wind blowing off.
And a lot of rope going into the water just when skipper needs to be at the helm driving boat back. Lots of opportunity for rope to get into prop, or more likely bow thruster, and convert a slightly awkward departure into a major disaster. So I personally won’t be doing this one as too much scope for SNAFU.

 

[dunedin]

"............... I have a remote control for the bow thruster, once the bow line is off short bursts keep her pinned in whilst walking to the stern ......

That I think is a great idea - a remote for the bow thruster, as then can stroll leisurely back after releasing the bow rope. If just one stern rope to deal with (and we have a “final departure rope” which loops onto winch and just tossed back onto pontoon), this should be much more manageable.
Is your remote a proprietary one matching your bow thruster - or an eBay generic one for 1/10th or less of the price? And was it easy to add?
Think ours is a MaxPower thruster.

PS. Awol will be rolling his eyes in disgust. Gin palace talk which should be moved to another place.

 

[James_Calvert]

Not sure this will help the original poster, but...

If the boat is only a few tonnes you should be able to walk it out, jump on board and then power out as necessary.

If this doesn't work, you will be alongside your berth mate. Just carry on walking the boat past your mate until your bow is clear of his stern. Then back to your helm and power out.

Obviously you have to be capable of boarding the yacht amidships whilst it's moving.

At walking speeds the scope for damage is limited but the keel will resist lateral movement from the wind much better once the boat is moving along.

When you get a chance, try this out with someone already at the helm. Ideally after you're on board, tell them when you judge they need to power up or not.

 

[dunedin]

I have seen this in a F8 at Largs marina. A yacht, steel cruising yacht, entered the berth, finger pontoon to starboard, boat to leeward, stopped, started to blow off before crew could get off, full engine revs astern and he shot out backwards before the boat had even got a foot down wind. He obviously had confidence in how his boat handled, get the beam clear fast, more room with the space the bow makes. No idea of the underwater shape of the hull, but the boat was chunky.

Once in my early learning days I did something similar, aborted the docking with a swift burst of reverse to go back out and have another try. Unfortunately I failed to inform her ladyship of the change of plan, who had just started to make a heroic leap off with a rope. She made it and fortunately dropped the rope as I reversed back out with boat and children on board.
I have been informed that this situation will NOT be repeated.

 

[FairweatherDave]

Thanks, though not the solution I am afraid.
Interesting approach, but he himself says that it doesn’t keep the stern in if blowing off - which is the primary issue.
He got his crew to release a stern rope to cover this situation - Ie wind blowing off.
And a lot of rope going into the water just when skipper needs to be at the helm driving boat back. Lots of opportunity for rope to get into prop, or more likely bow thruster, and convert a slightly awkward departure into a major disaster. So I personally won’t be doing this one as too much scope for SNAFU.

Okay.Now I have rewatched the video....agree he does mention the stern blowing off. But s simple slipped stern line added to the bow bridle isn't too much more work. But obviously I'm not in the OPs shoes of a tight berth with a high windage dinghy on the stern.

 

[dunedin]

If the boat is only a few tonnes you should be able to walk it out, jump on board and then power out as necessary.

Yes, fine for very small boats, not for 8 tons and high-ish freeboard. Our rule, even if fully crewed, is all ropes rigged as slips, all crew on board and boarding gates closed prior to departure.
Ideally also on arrival, but certainly when solo no jumping off. Have seen somebody solo jump off but failed to ensure engine in neutral. Left holding desperately to end of rope with boat backing out into fairway and unable to pull back in.

 

[awol]

Why not fit a length of track, open at the outboard end, along the pontoon with a couple of cars to take bow and stern ropes. Slide the cars on, attach ropes, hold boat in place with midship line, rev her up, slip the midship line and hurtle back.

 

[Bluetack42]

That I think is a great idea - a remote for the bow thruster, as then can stroll leisurely back after releasing the bow rope. If just one stern rope to deal with (and we have a “final departure rope” which loops onto winch and just tossed back onto pontoon), this should be much more manageable.
Is your remote a proprietary one matching your bow thruster - or an eBay generic one for 1/10th or less of the price? And was it easy to add?
Think ours is a MaxPower thruster.

PS. Awol will be rolling his eyes in disgust. Gin palace talk which should be moved to another place.

Yes its a Maxpower thruster and matching remote, as I recall it was not cheap, but still good as new after 10 years. Justified to myself knowing I would be single handing in & out of marinas & wanted to keep stress down, its got me out of several scrapes.

 

[dunedin]

Hacker, JimC, Channel Sailor

Yes regularly use motoring ahead onto mid spring, particularly on arrival - when it is rigged to the genoa winch to take up slack quickly. Power on and can go and make a cup before bothering with any other ropes.
Also on departure ideal if a neighbour is available to flip rope off cleat and throw on board. Had heard a lot about this technique but for some reason was for years before we started using regularly.
And if really needed to depart in a blowy day would ask for marina staff to help. But keen to improve process for departure on less windy but blowing off days.

The challenge on the winter berth is that as we get plenty of proper wind (no sailing then), winter ropes are attached permanently on chains shackled to the cleats. Hence lots of friction and chances to catch if trying to pull a long rope through.
Have tried a light retrieval / trip line on end of the rope loop, but just once it caught and failed to release - embarrassing sudden plan B, with zero contact but lots of fast reactions needed, and hardly the stress free approach we like.

The idea of tubing to make a wider and easier to release loop is another good one. This combined with the trip line might work well, could even self release when start reversing.
That plus a remote for the bow thruster might be the ideal solutions ...... unless somebody else knows an even better one (adding a stern thruster as well, in which case awol will never speak to me again?)

 

[dunedin]

Why not fit a length of track, open at the outboard end, along the pontoon with a couple of cars to take bow and stern ropes. Slide the cars on, attach ropes, hold boat in place with midship line, rev her up, slip the midship line and hurtle back.

Brilliant. But motorise them so they move the boat back like the shoreside tugs in the Panama Canal locks.
Or could I attach a midships rope to a drone and use that? I think I should stop the bottle there.

 

[Birdseye]

So we are reasonably well set up for arriving back onto our home berth - with middle rope with loop left on pole on end of pontoon, as well as bow and stern ropes ready to go.

But leaving the berth solo with wind blowing off can be tricky - as under half a metre gap to boat to leeward. Particularly as only engine controls are on the opposite side of the cockpit. By the time released bow rope and come back to the cockpit bow can already be blown off more than 50cm. And still stern ropes to release.
Motoring forward on a middle spring would of course keep the boat pinned in. But can’t get 100% reliability in getting it off the cleat smoothly and instantly as reverse swiftly back out of the gap. If it catches then the results would be very messy.

In my dreams I have explosive triggers to blow the bow and stern ropes simultaneously from the cockpit, but this seems somewhat less practical when wake up in the morning. So what do the jury recommend for a smooth and swift release of ropes in this situation
PS Reminder it is leaving a finger berth with minimal gap to leeward, no crew and engine controls at outside wheel.
PPS. Changing the boat or berth are not good options - the berth is chosen because it gives maximum shelter in gales etc, when unable to visit to check the boat.

Half a meter is an advantage if anything. There is nothing wrong with leaning on the other boat with fenders in between. Its what fenders are for. And if you are only half a meter apart, then there can be no chance of impact issues.

 

[BobsFolly]

On my 32' AWB I'm on a finger pontoon which is only 3/4 length and generally moor starboard side on, bows to, so a stern line to motor against wouldnt work. I have less than a metre to my neighbours boat.
I've a pontoon fender attached in front of the bow, I gently motor onto it and then wheel to port and the boat will sit against the pontoon. Increase the revs for a higher cross wind. I step off, remove remaining lines and then a burst of astern gets me out. By the time I'm half a boat length out I've enough steerage to control the bow from blowing across.

Demonstrated by Patrick Laine here far more eloquently than I can describe.

Bob

 

[SimonFa]

just fender up, release your lines and blast straight out with confidence.

Making sure your neighbour doesn't have any fenders out, otherwise you risk losing a few stanchions on at least one of the boats. I had an agreement with my neighbour when I was in Weymouth that as I had the chunkiest fenders I would always fender the boat side. and I'd flip his on to the boat if they were down.

 

[dunedin]

Making sure your neighbour doesn't have any fenders out, otherwise you risk losing a few stanchions on at least one of the boats. I had an agreement with my neighbour when I was in Weymouth that as I had the chunkiest fenders I would always fender the boat side. and I'd flip his on to the boat if they were down.

Yes, that is the issue with touching neighbour. (Though I rarely tie fenders to the wires, nearly always to the stronger stanchion bases).

 

[dom]

Just saw this thread - odd. Anyhow, this is a common problem with racing boats 40-60' with no bow thrusters (naturally) and being wide, are often squeezed in close to other boats. To make matters worse, they often sport foodmixer-type props powered by marginal engines. Hitting neighbours' boats is of course a non-starter: gelcoats can be repaired, reputations less easily ?

Thankfully it rarely happens:

1. Reduce lines to bare minim to hold the boat alongside.​

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2. Drop engine into reverse and start feeding in some revs, the point being to create a nice waterflow over the rudder and keel. Take a look at the bow of the boat and you can see the stream, wiggle the rudder and you can see it move - that's your steerage.​

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3. Remove all superfluous lines and slide the boat back a little along the pontoon. Ideally the boat will end up being held firm motoring against one forward facing spring, but an added bow line might be necessary. If so, that's the crew's job and the helm can sort the spring.​

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4. If the wind is up, momentum is you friend. Ask the bowman (or wife ?‍) to pull in the bow just before departure to create a bit of momentum towards the pontoon (to be honest I usually do this bit with her).​

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5. Keeping that inward bow momentum swiftly release both lines and feed in the power. The boat will now pop out of its slot like the proverbial bar of soap with steerage taboot ....yay!​

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6. Squirt well back into the alley, stop the boat, and wait until the stern swings into the wind.​

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7. Reverse or drive out and and bob's your uncle.​

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I may have made a meal of this, it's dead simple once one gets the hang of it.

 

[bluerm166]

To be in the cockpit whilst releasing the bow line and backing out ,with a strong wind tending to blow you on to the neighbour,particularly the bow, I maintain a small dyneema line running taut along the jetty.A small diameter bow line is passed through a block on a stainless snap hook which slides freely on the jetty line.The bow line is long enough to reach the cockpit but short of the prop .The line is held until the jetty is nearly cleared and then allowed to run thro ,as is the shorter stern line.The bow line is retrieved when clear.Yes ,a line in the water but it works.

 

[FairweatherDave]

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4. If the wind is up, momentum is you friend. Ask the bowman (or wife ?‍) to pull in the bow just before departure to create a bit of momentum towards the pontoon (to be honest I usually do this bit with her).​

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5. Keeping that inward bow momentum swiftly release both lines and feed in the power. The boat will now pop out of its slot like the proverbial bar of soap with steerage taboot ....yay!​

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6. Squirt well back into the alley, stop the boat, and wait until the stern swings into the wind.​

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7. Reverse or drive out and and bob's your uncle.​

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I may have made a meal of this, it's dead simple once one gets the hang of it.

Nice description Dom.
Two questions for clarity in my foggy amateur mind ....
In 4., this "momentum towards the pontoon".....presumably you mean towards the finger alongside, pivoting the bow slightly towards the pontoon. ?
In 6 "Squirt well back into the alley" presumably you mean squirt out of the berth into the alley behind you?
(I'm always staggered how technical boaty descriptions leave ambiguity, however hard people try!)

 

[TernVI]

Get a crew, or get a boat appropriate to your staffing budget?

 

[dom]

Nice description Dom.
Two questions for clarity in my foggy amateur mind ....
In 4., this "momentum towards the pontoon".....presumably you mean towards the finger alongside, pivoting the bow slightly towards the pontoon. ?
In 6 "Squirt well back into the alley" presumably you mean squirt out of the berth into the alley behind you?
(I'm always staggered how technical boaty descriptions leave ambiguity, however hard people try!)

Lol, yes and yes!

1. Re the pontoon/momentum issue, I wasn't clear at all! ?. Yes I definitely mean towards the finger - it's surprising how long it takes for the wind to slow off this inward momentum and start pushing the bow away. You can be almost out by then while simultaneously developing nice stablising hydrodynamics over the keel and rudder.

2. "Squirt back": you've got it, swiftly back into the alley, then relax while allowing/encouraging the stern to come into the wind. Then exit either in reverse or forwards.

 

[Jamie Dundee]

Making sure your neighbour doesn't have any fenders out, otherwise you risk losing a few stanchions on at least one of the boats. I had an agreement with my neighbour when I was in Weymouth that as I had the chunkiest fenders I would always fender the boat side. and I'd flip his on to the boat if they were down.

That’s why I suggested big ball fenders, less chance of tangles.