"Get the furling line off that winch!"...

[BlueSkyNick]

... came the cry from the skipper of a boat I was on recently, as I tried to furl a flogging headsail on a 40 footer in a F4/5.

I did as I was told at the time, and eventually got it in by hand over handing on the line, then asked what the issue was.... too much lateral strain on the furling mechanism came the reply.

I explained I was not using or intending to use the winch handle, so with just a couple of turns on the winch and pulling by hand I was simply using it as a method of making it easier to furl, but using the friction on the drum to prevent the sail pulling back. No additional gearing hence no additional tension. Had I put the line in the self tailer and started cranking the handle, it would have been a different issue.

The skipper maintained that the furling line should never go on the winch - much better to bear away to blanket the sail behind the main, to make it easier to furl.

Comments invited.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I have used a winch to pull the line by hand as you suggest. If the wind is up and it's a handful to furl then it can make it easier. As a "skipper" I have suggested to my crew to take a turn and use the winch to help tail if they are finding it hard to haul. It's not any different with respect to a load on the furling drum if hauling the furling line through a closed cam cleat.

 

[Seajet]

moodyNick,

sounds like you were right to me, but I can understand a skipper one doesn't know well over-reacting if they thought any second you were going to put a winch handle on and crank it up to 11.

 

[jerrytug]

You were only using the winch to keep what you had won. I would be happy to see someone making such good use of the facilities on offer.
I have hauled furling gear into a snarled up snakes's nest by hand anyway once or twice,not paying it attention.

There obviously must be a strength of wind or size of genny when hand furling is physically impossible,there are plenty of boats out there with electric furlers!

I would have a word with him to explain,all the best Jerry

 

[Jamesuk]

Go to the gym more often, or buy your own boat so your the skipper.

You were both right and both wrong - how do you tie a bowline? )

 

[pagoda]

... came the cry from the skipper of a boat I was on recently, as I tried to furl a flogging headsail on a 40 footer in a F4/5.

I did as I was told at the time, and eventually got it in by hand over handing on the line, then asked what the issue was.... too much lateral strain on the furling mechanism came the reply.

I explained I was not using or intending to use the winch handle, so with just a couple of turns on the winch and pulling by hand I was simply using it as a method of making it easier to furl, but using the friction on the drum to prevent the sail pulling back. No additional gearing hence no additional tension. Had I put the line in the self tailer and started cranking the handle, it would have been a different issue.

The skipper maintained that the furling line should never go on the winch - much better to bear away to blanket the sail behind the main, to make it easier to furl.

Comments invited.

I agree it is not good practice to use a winch - with handle! for furling lines. Having said that I have done it once or twice in dire circumstances , reducing any wind load on the sail as best I could. In quite heavy air with just 2 of us on board.
My preferred method - given sea room, is a very deep reach with the genny robbed of wind behind the main. That is much easier. You can't really do that easily in confined spaces mind you...or off a nearby nasty rocky lee shore.
If you ever "need" to help things along with a winch in difficult conditions. remember to un-roll the genny and ease it all out to normal rolled tension as soon as you can. Or you may get permanent creases!!

Graeme

 

[Uricanejack]

According to Harken using the winch is unnessessary and can cause damage. Used mearly to tail I can't see why. I have and would do so again on my own boat.

When I sail on some one elses boat. I don't try and teach them how to sail.(unless asked) I abide by there rules it is only polite.
If I don't like the way they sail or the demands they make I don't have to go back.

So I would amend to never use the winch to furl the sail on his boat it upsets him, use winch to my hearts content on my own boat.

 

[Javelin]

We had a Gib Sea 26 in last year where the only thing holding his mast from falling backwards was the halyard that was attached to his pulpit which had got tangled up with the furler at the top.
The owner had used a winch to wind up the jib and snapped the ss forestay in the process.

He said "I thought it was a bit stiffer than usual, so I used the winch and then it got easier" !!

 

[dunedin]

We put a ratchet block block on our furling line, which reduces the risk of pulling back.

Actually was the same type as used on the Topper centre mainsheet kits - just liked the blocks - but seems to work well as large diameter so low friction inwards but holds outwards

 

[john_morris_uk]

For what it's worth, I think the skipper was a pillock. If you've got an unfurled sail flogging in a strong wind then even the winch with a handle to wind it in using the power of the winch might be a seamanlike and sensible option. If there's no load in the sail then you should be able to roll it all away by hand, but using a few turns on a winch means you are not running the risk of the sail becoming loaded and taking the reefing line out of your grip in a dangerous way. In fact I think you could argue its safer and more seamanlike to use the properties of a line with a few turns on a winch drum in the way you attempted.

I'll go further and say that on reflection, the skipper didn't know what he was talking about...

 

[Fergus]

I always use the winch!

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Go to the gym more often, or buy your own boat so your the skipper.

You were both right and both wrong - how do you tie a bowline? )

Huh? I don't go to the gym, I do own my own boat which I skipper, and use a winch to help me furl the genoa when required.

I tie bowlines with a rabbit going round the tree, as I was taught about 45 years ago.

(and I know how to use apostrophes !)

 

[BlueSkyNick]

I always use the winch!

I thought you always got somebody else to use it for you !!

 

[nigelmercier]

I always use the winch!

Ditto. What's the problem. My boat has a dedicated winch for the furler.

 

[Fergus]

I can't imagine what you're suggesting!

 

[oldbilbo]

FWIW I agree with t'others that you were quite right and entirely reasonable in your actions.... and non-actions. We've all been on boats where the owner had limited understanding of what he was doing and rather less of what his crew were capable of.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Ditto. What's the problem. My boat has a dedicated winch for the furler.

The problem is that if you use a winch handle and exert a lot more strain on the system, if there is a genuine problem, eg a faulty component or halyard wrap at the top, you will make matters significantly worse by grinding away oblivious to what is actually happening.

 

[mjcoon]

The problem is that if you use a winch handle and exert a lot more strain on the system, if there is a genuine problem, eg a faulty component or halyard wrap at the top, you will make matters significantly worse by grinding away oblivious to what is actually happening.

+1. A number of flotilla/charter yachts I've been on had the little nylon blocks at the stanchion bases, where the furling line runs, worn half away so they do not turn and the line just runs over the axle. Especially the rear-most, which may take a large turning angle if the furling line is led to the winch. (Whether or not the handle is used.)

Using a winch and handle does not, of itself, increase the strain at the furling drum so long as the foil is free to turn. But "brute force and ignorance" can be a problem...

Mike.

 

[Lakesailor]

I agree with those who think the skipper is a knob-head.
If he thinks so little of your abilities that he thinks you'll use the handle and damage his gear, he wasn't very diplomatic. Perhaps someone has done it before on his boat?
If he genuinely thinks what you were doing adds any risk to his gear he is an idiot.

But if he has such a rigid belief as

The skipper maintained that the furling line should never go on the winch

you wonder.

When you see and hear what some people do and do not understand about equipment you wonder how they get through life.

 

[Fossil]

The story really illustrates the need to keep both ends of the system - the jib sheet AND the furling line - under control at all times.

After several incidents, one really hairy, I got into the habit of always keeping the furling line under light tension when unrolling the jib and keeping the jib sheet under light tension when rolling it away.

That way, the furling line makes a nice neat roll, without riding turns which usually means that it can be pulled out fairly easily - even in heavy winds - to roll the jib away, without recourse to the winch.