mainsail1
Well-Known Member
A trick in stronger winds that works well is to heave to first and then furl the genoa.
"Get the furling line off that winch!"...
- Thread starter BlueSkyNick
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Mainsail1 most sailing yachts would heave to with the genoa/jib backed and the tiller down. So there would be pressure on the genoa making it impossible to furl. Certainly, for mainsail 'jiffy'/slab reefing to heave to can be an option to help. Are you suggesting perhaps on a close reach with the yacht nearly stalling and the genoa/jib flapping with main well out and spilling wind?
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
At last - a proper sailor.
+1 on that although i find a quick turn of the winch handle now & then helps the hands
If you know your boat you know immediately if there is a halliard wrap, ie spinnaker halliard caught up in the rolls, so you stop & sort it
Athene V30
Well-Known Member
Ask him to demonstrate and offer to take over the high horse / helm
Ex-SolentBoy
Well-Known Member
Our furling genoa was 750 square feet. We never winched it, as the winches were more than capable of snapping the forestay or bending the gear.
With proper maintenance of the gear, and the correct point of sail we could always furl it by hand.
With proper maintenance of the gear, and the correct point of sail we could always furl it by hand.
Neil_Y
Well-Known Member
I'm with John on this one.
The load on the drum/furling gear is a factor of the wind load trying to unroll the sail. A fully powered up half furled sail has a massive load on the furling line and drum, probably more than you could winch on a small winch (If you are sailing close hauled the genoa sheet powered by the biggest winch on the boat is pulling the sail and trying to unroll the sail, the only thing stopping it is the furling line, at a slightly bigger diameter so a little less load).
When you are furling you will have taken load off by easing sheets and you only need just more than the fixed load for it to roll up. The only reason for not using a winch is, if the system is jammed up you could do some damage and by hand as the load reduces the furling gets quicker so by hand you can rapidly roll up the last few feet. Perhaps he had experienced a jammed/damaged furler in the past.
I have often used a self tailing winch to furl when short handed (40' yacht) ease sheet a few feet, wind furling line a few feet at a time.
The load on the drum/furling gear is a factor of the wind load trying to unroll the sail. A fully powered up half furled sail has a massive load on the furling line and drum, probably more than you could winch on a small winch (If you are sailing close hauled the genoa sheet powered by the biggest winch on the boat is pulling the sail and trying to unroll the sail, the only thing stopping it is the furling line, at a slightly bigger diameter so a little less load).
When you are furling you will have taken load off by easing sheets and you only need just more than the fixed load for it to roll up. The only reason for not using a winch is, if the system is jammed up you could do some damage and by hand as the load reduces the furling gets quicker so by hand you can rapidly roll up the last few feet. Perhaps he had experienced a jammed/damaged furler in the past.
I have often used a self tailing winch to furl when short handed (40' yacht) ease sheet a few feet, wind furling line a few feet at a time.
prv
Well-Known Member
Literally every time I've used a winch on a furling line, I've ended up either damaging something or creating a really vicious jam. Learned my lesson now. Trouble is, when my parents use the boat, I'm not sure my mum's strong enough to furl the sail in less than calm conditions so I bet she'll put it on the sheet winch that's right next to it. Just hope she has better luck than I do...
Pete
Pete
Barnacle Bill
Well-Known Member
I think you have to know your boat and your gear. On the Nic 345 I've never had to winch the furling line, because it's easier to let the sheet completely loose and furl away quickly to stop the flogging.
But on a bigger boat - The 55 had such a huge yankee, with such heavy sheets, that the sheets were dangerous when flogging. One guy was hit very hard on the head by a sheet when he was inside the sprayhood frame! So you had to control the flogging, and that was best done with the lazy sheet. We got the sail as loose as possible and winched the furling line. After all, the furling line has considerable tension in it when the sail is in use, so what's the difference pulling it in on the winch? (provided you don't go on winching harder if something jams).
But on a bigger boat - The 55 had such a huge yankee, with such heavy sheets, that the sheets were dangerous when flogging. One guy was hit very hard on the head by a sheet when he was inside the sprayhood frame! So you had to control the flogging, and that was best done with the lazy sheet. We got the sail as loose as possible and winched the furling line. After all, the furling line has considerable tension in it when the sail is in use, so what's the difference pulling it in on the winch? (provided you don't go on winching harder if something jams).
alant
Well-Known Member
Unless furling line is 'tamed' on a winch, you will often smell 'roasting pork', as the line runs thru a crewmans hands, burning a deep furrow whilst doing so.
Straining the line with a winch handle, with possible gear failure is another problem entirely.
prv
Well-Known Member
Does nobody else have a clutch (as used for halyards etc on coachroofs) on their furling lines?
If not, using a winch as snubber in any breeze is certainly a good plan. I also like the sound of the dinghy-style ratchet blocks suggested upthread.
Pete
jerrytug
N/A
Yes a good use of self tailers to get the furling line in bit by bit when you are short handed,especially as you can win a foot or two one handed without looking.
josephmoore
Well-Known Member
It amazes me how everyone's perspective on the situation varies because, I assume, their boats also vary. A small sail is going to be a completely different beast to a large sail so context is all important...
On my old F18 catamaran the furling jib was a one handed yank about one arm's length. Done.
On my Hurley 22 you can roll it in by hand, but need to take care in keeping some tension on the sheet to keep things tidy and stop it getting tangled.
On my friend's Rebel 41 I definitely used a winch in any kind of breeze as I'm not particularly strong, and if one of those sheets was flapping around and caught someone it would have hurt.
On my old F18 catamaran the furling jib was a one handed yank about one arm's length. Done.
On my Hurley 22 you can roll it in by hand, but need to take care in keeping some tension on the sheet to keep things tidy and stop it getting tangled.
On my friend's Rebel 41 I definitely used a winch in any kind of breeze as I'm not particularly strong, and if one of those sheets was flapping around and caught someone it would have hurt.
photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
Using the furling line on a winch is a absolute no no in my books. If you have ever dismantled your Selden you will see how the line is attatched to plastic bit inside the furler... And I have witnessed a small amount of exuberance causing this to fail. ( ok, I did it a few years ago on a charter during a fraught moment at night...)
I am sure if a owner was carefull he would be ok, but how can you get crew to realise the same care if they have witnessed you?
If the furler is set up well. Without too much tension in the forestay
it should be easily handled by hand.
I am sure if a owner was carefull he would be ok, but how can you get crew to realise the same care if they have witnessed you?
If the furler is set up well. Without too much tension in the forestay
it should be easily handled by hand.
gardenshed
Well-Known Member
The load required to furl the sail is the same, whether applied by Popeye's biceps or a winch. Taking the load off the sail before furling and making sure there isn't a birdsnest (by keeping the furling line under tension when unfurling) are more important than pulling by hand or by winch.
Honey Trap
Member
On my boat , a Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 32.2, the furling line was originally lead over the coachroof to the halyard winch. I didn't like this arrangement and so ran it along the side deck through a couple of sheaves and through a small clutch alongside the cockpit. There, in lightish conditions my wife has taken a couple of turns around the genoa winch just to make things a little easier on her hands - no problem as far as I'm concerned.
In stonger winds, however, she takes the wheel while I go forward and "sweat" the furling line by pulling it up vertically while she draws the slack through the clutch and maintains light tension on the genoa sheet. Simple, fast and little risk of over-stressing the furling gear unlike if using a winch "in anger".
Frank
In stonger winds, however, she takes the wheel while I go forward and "sweat" the furling line by pulling it up vertically while she draws the slack through the clutch and maintains light tension on the genoa sheet. Simple, fast and little risk of over-stressing the furling gear unlike if using a winch "in anger".
Frank
sankukai
New Member
+1 I have tried this last Easter in F4 winds, no problem at all, furled the genoa in no time.
prv
Well-Known Member
Yes - provided all goes smoothly. However, when there is a jam (halyard jammed aloft, snarl on the drum, something drawn into the mechanism, etc) the load will increase. If you're pulling by hand you will notice this, and can stop and investigate. If you're winding a large sheet winch you may well not notice, and either cinch the jam up really tight so it's a nightmare to undo - or break something. In extreme cases the forestay, by untwisting it.
Pete
Vega1447
Well-Known Member
Is anyone suggesting using a winch handle?
I use the cockpit winch when "lazy" as a turning block for furling line when furling in stronger winds. (I mostly sail solo.)
In extremis, I have even cross-winched the furling line to the opposite side of the cockpit to use the lazy (but on "wrong side") cockpit winch as a turning block for furling line..
I *never* use a winch handle for the reasons that many have stated upthread...
John
mainsail1
Well-Known Member
Once you heave to the pressure on the genoa is not great. Try it next time you are out sailing. I can assure you it works well and makes life easy with no need to winch.
prv
Well-Known Member
In at least some circumstances, I count Jerrytug, John Morris, Fergus, MoodyNick, Nigel Mercier, Neil_Y, Barnacle Bill, JosephMoore, and a customer of Javelin's yard. Not sure what your point is meant to be.
For what it's worth, I accept that it is sometimes appropriate to winch a furling line, but I think it's safer to assume never and make rare exceptions. As I said at the beginning, I have never yet made an exception that I didn't regret.
However, the post you quoted was a specific response to "gardenshed"'s point about the load being the same by hand or by winch. This is true only up to the point that something jams.
Pete
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