Generators.

[CaptainBob]

Struggling to come to a conclusion about which generator to get, or if I should get one at all. Any thoughts on this...

We're going sans permanent base from April this year, but need power for laptops regularly (I work on the net). I've found mobile broadband dongles work in surprising places so I've figured it's worth investing in ways of making my batteries last longer in order to avoid being in marinas a lot of the time.

This year we'll be working along the coast from Plymouth to Whitby, so will be on the south coast a lot of the time, and then make our way fairly rapidly up the east coast, not hanging about too much anywhere.

My options as I see it:

1. Upgrade my leisure battery bank and run the boat engine for an hour or so as required. This is noisy (bad for me and potential 'neighbours'), and possibly bad for the engine (to be run often, without large load). But will mean I don't have to buy a generator, and don't have to add petrol to the list of fuels I need to carry aboard (I row my tender). Or will the load exerted by charging a biggish battery bank give it enough to chew on to keep it happy?

2. Get a small, quiet, petrol generator. Problem is, the only one I can find which really does seem to be quiet is also seriously expensive (Honda EU10i, £600+) and I've read a lot that they're not really suitable for very regular use.

3. Get a small, cheap, not so quiet petrol generator. I've found quite a few relatively well reviewed ones. But these are really quite noisy. Will I find I don't feel I can ever really use it without peeing other nearby boats.

4. Use shore power in marinas. But this is seriously very expensive because we'll probably end up taking them up on 1 week or 1 month of fees rather than a day here or there.

5. Decide that actually, there aren't all that many decent long-term anchorages available apart from in the South West and Solent, and realise we'd necessarily be in marinas most of the time anyway, and save the money and hassle.

6. Solar. I do have a HRDX Marlec regulator already wired in and ready to go (got a Rutland plugged in at the mo), but solar panels seem SO expensive for not a lot of juice - and big. Not really feeling that the price justifies the gains for UK only use.

7. Something else I've not mentioned/considered?


Thank you!

 

[sarabande]

small suitcase Hondas/Kawasakis do come up on eBay with surprising regularity. If you are prepared to wait for the right one, and move very quickly, you can find a good one for about £350.

I bought my baby Honda (1000watt 240, + 12v charger very useful) for tjhat price about 6 years ago. Intermittent use since then and wroks a treat whenever needed.

The 12v charging facility is more than useful in being an emergency battery booster.


I'd avoid all the "small and fussy solutions" and go for

1 an increased battery bank,
2 a good suitcase (wins friends in marinas and moorings as you point out)
3 use marinas whenever you can. (If you are working from the boat, it's a legit business expense. Outside London you can claim up to £75 a night for working away from home)

 

[Heckler]

Struggling to come to a conclusion about which generator to get, or if I should get one at all. Any thoughts on this...

We're going sans permanent base from April this year, but need power for laptops regularly (I work on the net). I've found mobile broadband dongles work in surprising places so I've figured it's worth investing in ways of making my batteries last longer in order to avoid being in marinas a lot of the time.

This year we'll be working along the coast from Plymouth to Whitby, so will be on the south coast a lot of the time, and then make our way fairly rapidly up the east coast, not hanging about too much anywhere.

My options as I see it:

1. Upgrade my leisure battery bank and run the boat engine for an hour or so as required. This is noisy (bad for me and potential 'neighbours'), and possibly bad for the engine (to be run often, without large load). But will mean I don't have to buy a generator, and don't have to add petrol to the list of fuels I need to carry aboard (I row my tender). Or will the load exerted by charging a biggish battery bank give it enough to chew on to keep it happy?

2. Get a small, quiet, petrol generator. Problem is, the only one I can find which really does seem to be quiet is also seriously expensive (Honda EU10i, £600+) and I've read a lot that they're not really suitable for very regular use.

3. Get a small, cheap, not so quiet petrol generator. I've found quite a few relatively well reviewed ones. But these are really quite noisy. Will I find I don't feel I can ever really use it without peeing other nearby boats.

4. Use shore power in marinas. But this is seriously very expensive because we'll probably end up taking them up on 1 week or 1 month of fees rather than a day here or there.

5. Decide that actually, there aren't all that many decent long-term anchorages available apart from in the South West and Solent, and realise we'd necessarily be in marinas most of the time anyway, and save the money and hassle.

6. Solar. I do have a HRDX Marlec regulator already wired in and ready to go (got a Rutland plugged in at the mo), but solar panels seem SO expensive for not a lot of juice - and big. Not really feeling that the price justifies the gains for UK only use.

7. Something else I've not mentioned/considered?


Thank you!

Ive got an SDMO, French built, Kohler emgine, 900 watts, suitcase jobbie. It is not too noisy, it lives on the sugar scoop when charging. About £300. Invertor type, so no spikes. It runs my telly, lights, charges the batteries thru the on board charger. An evening of telly, 60 watt bulb, and charging, about 6 hours costs about2 litres of petrol.
Most important it runs the toaster for Mams brekkie!!
Stu

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

As a generator fan, I was going to chip in on this, but I was wondering whether I had missed the point. Are you just thinking of a generator because of your laptop needs? If that is the case, there are a whole load of other approaches.

If you are going anti-clockwise I predict a fair amount of motor sailing. A good laptop uses very little power, and I think most need about 14v or so. Surely you dont want to start with 220v for that?

 

[CaptainBob]

As a generator fan, I was going to chip in on this, but I was wondering whether I had missed the point. Are you just thinking of a generator because of your laptop needs? If that is the case, there are a whole load of other approaches.

If you are going anti-clockwise I predict a fair amount of motor sailing. A good laptop uses very little power, and I think most need about 14v or so. Surely you dont want to start with 220v for that?

Well, we've got two laptops in fact. Each circa 100W at 12V = 8.3A each, plus fridge, radio, lights in the eve, anchor light. While laptops are on it's say 16A. Have two 110Ah batts. One saved for engine start. Leaves 1 battery. If we stick to only using half its capacity that's 55Ah at 16A = 3.4 hours and that's not including evening usage. So if we anchored for 3 days while I worked 8 hour days at full capacity = 24 hours. So we'd need 7 recharges.

Admittedly both laptops aren't on all the time, and 100W is peak. But still, if we anchor for a few days, we're going to need a re-charge.

EDIT
PS. We are only going from Plym to Whitby this year. No rush at all. Taking it very slowly and taking in the places we visit at leisure. Only making hops around the coast to the next base when weather is looking like we can sail - unless we're desperate. Approx 700nm total journey in 5 or 6 months or so, rough average 30 to 50nm a week total.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

It seems to me you need more battery capacity. If your two 110 batteries are of the same leisure type, would it not be easier to install a dedicated engine start battery?

As it is not practical to use all of a batteries capacity, by doubling your battery bank your roughly treble the anount of capacity available to you.

I wouldn't consider a generator until you have at least enough battery to last 3 days at anchor without any charging.

 

[CaptainBob]

I'd need a shedload of batteries to do that though wouldn't I? At 16A, 8 hours a day, that's 128Ah a day or 384Ah for 3 days. If I want to only discharge to 50% capacity each time then I need 768Ah. That'd be 7 x 1 x 110Ah batteries!

I'd sink!

 

[Rivers & creeks]

Bought a 1200W Kippor suitcase last summer and loved it. Noisier than a Honda but one third the price! The ability to recharge mains powered items whilst charging the batteries and heating the water in the calorifier was a real treat. Two 30 minutes boosts a day did it. With 2 children and lots washing/pc watching and all that stuff we wondered why we hand't done it before.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

I'd need a shedload of batteries to do that though wouldn't I? At 16A, 8 hours a day, that's 128Ah a day or 384Ah for 3 days. If I want to only discharge to 50% capacity each time then I need 768Ah. That'd be 7 x 1 x 110Ah batteries!

I'd sink!

Silly me, I didn't ask what the boat was. I have 1000Ah !
I spoke to 2 engine manufacturers at SIBS and they both said there was no reason whatsoever to be concerned about running modern marine diesel at low rpm for extended periods. If you are going to run a generator for an hour a day, you might as well run the engine.

 

[zaragozo]

Honda EU10i

For what it's worth I bought a Honda EU10i last year and love it to bits. So quiet I have to check it from time to time to ensure it's still working.

 

[Marsupial]

Silly me, I didn't ask what the boat was. I have 1000Ah !
I spoke to 2 engine manufacturers at SIBS and they both said there was no reason whatsoever to be concerned about running modern marine diesel at low rpm for extended periods. If you are going to run a generator for an hour a day, you might as well run the engine.

Its not low RPM that does the damage its low load.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

Its not low RPM that does the damage its low load.

Heh, I'n not a techie, but that not what they said. I asked their view on leaving the engines at idle speed, out of gear - so low rpm and low load.

 

[Ariadne]

I'd still go for a bigger battery bank 3-400 Ah at least, plus a decent cranking battery. We only have 600Ah which will do us for 4-5 days with the fridge on and 10 with it off!

As for generators, we use a 2.6 Kva Kipor suitcase type. Only £400 well worth the investment and save putting loads of hours on the main engine.

 

[Marsupial]

Heh, I'n not a techie, but that not what they said. I asked their view on leaving the engines at idle speed, out of gear - so low rpm and low load.

Well you may not want to believe me, so how about this man:

http://www.thedieselstop.com/contents/getitems.php3?Breaking in a Diesel Engine

"Well why not run the engine at idle or under no load? This is bad too. It can create a similar condition to glazing. The rings need to expand a little during this initial break-in period, just not so much that they overheat and flash the engine oil. The engine needs to be moderately loaded in order to break in correctly. Running the engine under very light or no load prevents the oil film placed on the cylinder wall from being scraped away by the expanding compression rings. The rings will instead “hydroplane” or ride over the deposited oil film, allowing it to be exposed to the cylinder combustion. The oil film will then partially burn on the cylinder leaving a residue that will build up and oxidize over time. Eventually this leaves a hard deposit on the cylinder wall that is very similar to the glaze left from flash burning. My caution to those just running the engine as a normal daily driver (without some loading) and especially those who love to idle their vehicles, expect some VERY extended break-in periods (up to 30,000 miles on one I know of). Expect oil consumption forever due to oil glazing. The rings never really seat well if they cannot expand from the dynamics and heat that a load produces. Expect poor mileage due to the passing of compression and combustion gasses around the compression rings. Additionally, expect to see increased bearing wear and engine wear due to the fuel passing the rings diluting the engine oil. "

yes he is talking about "running in" AKA "breaking in" the engine but the same "rules" apply to the engine regardless of its age.

 

[Stu Jackson]

If you're going to even consider running the engine for anything, given your situation, have you upgraded to a new alternator and external regulator? If not the engine charging may not do too much for you with a tapering charger. You leisure bank is horrendously small for cruising, where you want to run the bank between 50% and 85% of full. Get a larger bank, twice what you have. Battery acceptance on such a small bank will reduce your ability to charge with any method.

 

[markch]

Honda EU10i

CaptainBob

I hope our Honda EU10i was not to nosey for you as we were moored next to you last weekend at the Yealm, we have found it to be very economical and reliable and were lucky to find one that had been used once on Ebay for £450. We also find our Rutland 913 to be handy at topping up the batteries when the boat is left on our mooring. Hope you find the right solution for yourselves.

Markch

 

[cimo]

Ive got an SDMO, French built, Kohler emgine, 900 watts, suitcase jobbie. It is not too noisy, it lives on the sugar scoop when charging. About £300. Invertor type, so no spikes. It runs my telly, lights, charges the batteries thru the on board charger. An evening of telly, 60 watt bulb, and charging, about 6 hours costs about2 litres of petrol.
Most important it runs the toaster for Mams brekkie!!
Stu

please please please don't ever moor next to me stu

 

[Cliveshep]

I use a lap-top on my boat, plus a rice cooker, a sandwich maker, a toaster, a food mixer, a vacuum cleaner and so on, all 700w or under. We also charge mobile.

To use the laptop we have a laptop power supply unit from Maplins, around £25, all the rest of the kit is Lidl, Aldi, Tesco, etc.

We have several generators, a 4-stroke 3kva from at £149 from Aldi (Wolf) Powercraft, used for jet washing, welding, large tools when we work on the boat, a Clarke G700 4-stroke, quiet but pricey at £400 odd, and on one occasion when that broke down we bought one from Woolworths believe it or not for £39, a 700w 2-stroke that just purrs. We have now elected to use the 2-stroke for most of the time we are cruising, it is quiet, smokes like a moped of course, so it sites on the stern deck puffing over the side, but has slightly more electrical oomph than the 4 stroke. It runs 5 1.2 hours on a 50-1 mix, same as the tender outboard, and has a 8amp 12v output that outputs even if we are using the 240 side.

Unless you want to spend £600 on a Honda, these cheap 2-strokes do tick most of the boxes. We've been using ours for 3 years now, not bad for £39, although they are now more expensive they do still come up in either Aldi or Lidl for around £60-70 or you can buy one here: http://www.toolbaydirect.co.uk/cata...-WP980-Petrol-Generator-2-Stroke-720w/147585/

We don't mo0r up near people of course, but if in a marina you've usually got shore power anyway.

 

[Pete7]

If you are working from the boat, can't the business buy the generator? is there an advantage in then writing it off to depreciation over say 3 years perhaps. Might make the Honda more affordable.

We have the Honda 20i, superb bit of kit, but without any desiel heating on board we need the extra size to run little oil filled heaters, calorifier, toaster for memsahib and 40 amp battery charger.

Pete

 

[KellysEye]

>Get a small, quiet, petrol generator.

There is no such thing. We were once on a mooring buoy between two boats running Hondas, the noise was such that it drove us mad. Engines are quieter.