Gas Safety

[Rob_Webb]

Re: Pumping out gas

Have you ever sprayed a touch of WD40 into the air intake of a diesel to aid starting after winter lay-up?

It does the trick but for a couple of strokes it knocks like buggery and practically lifts out of the boat.... I fear this has potential to do much the same!

 

[peterb]

Re: Pumping out gas

Yes, it would work. But there have been several industrial accidents in the past because diesel engines will run quite happily on gas-air mixtures. In fact, too happily. A normal diesel engine throttle works by controlling the fuel flow; there's no control over the amount of air drawn in. So if the intake air includes sufficient combustible gas, then the engine will run with no control on its speed. Shutting the throttle will have no effect, and the engine can overspeed. Not likely if it's in gear, but in neutral it could lead to considerable damage unless the decompressors are lifted quickly.

But there is a way in which incognito's suggestion might work, and it comes from coal mining. The original Davy safety lamp contained its flame within copper mesh, stopping it from spreading to the outer atmosphere. But if the outer atmosphere contained sufficient gas to be explosive, then it would burn on the inside of the mesh; the flame was visible and gave a warning (of methane in the case of coal mines). Perhaps we should add a miner's safety lamp to the growing list of desirable safety gear?

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by peterb on 04/07/2002 18:53 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[peterb]

Re: GAS SAFETY.

I remember sailing on a boat (I believe a Contessa 32) which had it's gas bottles in a locker just outside the cabin aft of the galley. A hole had been cut in the bulkhead between galley and bottles, and the sort of hatch usually seen on dinghy flotation compartments had been fitted (about 6 inches diameter, screw fitting). When you'd finished cooking you unscrewed the hatch, put an arm through and turned the gas off at the bottle without getting wet in the cockpit. Because it was easy it got done. Would something like that work in your case?

 

[tcm]

Re: Pumping out gas, and sucking out fires

peterb's and RWebbs points noted (parallel responses should list downwards, not up..)

Don't like this idea much, and neither (secretly) does, ken, I think: if there wasn't much gas, the hose wd have to be a long way down and why bother...but if there was loads (and how would you know if there was a lot or a litle?) there a risk of explosion from firing up the engine. For all these reasons, larger stinkipotter engines, and especially petrol engines, will have blowers in and out.

Nonetheless, in a small engine compartment, if there actually IS an engine fire, and assuming that the boat is still in one piece (thereby showing that that is no gas left, at least, ahem...) then firing up the engine asap and running at max revs in neutral is known as a good way to "suck" the fire out, denying it oxygen, and I successfully used this once in a car.

 

[tcm]

Re: gas-related boating accident info required

I wd like to know exact numbers....but I understood that it is a significant proportion of boating accidents. Or a significant proportion of sinkings. Or a significant proportion of fires. Anyway, I'm fairly sure that it isn't "hardly any".

By the way, I belive it wd need quite a lot of gas to really kerboom and blow the boat up in slapstick fashion - much more likely to flare up, start a small fire which then spreads.

 

[Col]

Re: Pumping out gas

Only problem I can see , is sparks from starter motor!
Nobody has mentioned a device made for the job- a bilge blower, nearly every petrol powerboat I have seen has them.

For those that haven't seen one, it is a fan with a sealed electric motor ( no sparks ) mounted in a short plastic tube, with tubing, similar to a tumble dryer outlet, that goes to bottom of bilge from one side of fan, and to a grille outlet suitably positioned to vent gas overboard, from other side of fan.
Fan is monted high enough for it not to suck up bilge water.

http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/boaters?&page=2

 

[halcyon]

Re: gas-related boating accident info required

We had one years ago at Mylor, chap working on a wooden 25 ft yacht.
Big bang, no mast, no deck, and either side of the hull lying on the tarmac. A quick search of the hull found no body, so a search was started of the creak, when up wonders the owner to see what was going on, appears he'd gone over the chandlery for some screws.



Brian

 

[Mirelle]

TAYLOR\'S PARA-FIN

No, I don't have shares in them, but I have had 34 years of sailing without once worrying about a gas leak.

Burns hotter, so boils a kettle faster......very adjustable for simmering without any danger of the flame blowing out.....cheaper to run......no faffiing about lugging gas bottles......can easily store enough fuelfor a long trip...any idiot even me can overhaul one so no need for CORGIs, etc, etc......

 

[oldharry]

Re: Gas detecting matches..

Visit your local Hospitals' burns unit now, so that you know what to expect when (not if) you are taken there.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: Gas detecting matches..

>Visit your local Hospitals' burns unit now, so that you know what to expect when (not if) you are taken there.<

A bunch of Jocks reciting bl**dy awful poetry about "wee timerous cowering beasties"?

 

[Mirelle]

What for?

No gas aboard. No petrol aboard. Just diesel, paraffin and a little methylated spirits. Oh and coal for the coal stove.

Blow yourself up by all means, but please don't do so near me!

 

[ToMo]

Re: What for?

Don't you use an outboard then?.....in which case you can come and row wifey, 2 dogs and me, cos I'm b*ggerd if I'm prepared to do it! <G>
TôMö

 

[oldharry]

Re: wee timerous cowerin beasties

Doing it with a kilt on is just ASKING for trouble TK! Particularly if a certain rumour about Scots' underwear is true.....

Now lets see - upward force of blast X Sq root of damping effect of Clan McDonald plaid ....

 

[peterb]

Yes, it falls into the bilge (though getting diluted on the way). But it doesn't necessarily stay there for ever. Diffusion will cause the gas to gradually leave the boat via ventilators, etc, and if there is a through draught of air then dilution will be even quicker.

 

[peterb]

Re: gas-related boating accident info required

Have a look at http://www.maib.dft.gov.uk/sd/0002/15.htm.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Great Laugh

Good on you TOME, just read this scuttlebut thread and laughed my self sick. What a wind up. Are you sure you were not talking about laughing gas?

 

[tome]

Re: Great Laugh

Jollyjack

Whatever you're on, please mail me a sample.

This thread has gone a bit awry, but that's the great thing about the forum. No wind up from my side at all, and plenty of well considered opinion.

Guess that's the way we are....

 

[charles_reed]

Re: TAYLOR\'S PARA-FIN

Obviously a paragon amongst paraffin stove users - all the ones I've met consider they've overcome a major hurdle when they manage bangers and mash on the top of the stove. In fact they nearly always go out to eat - and what about that joke for an oven?

 

[oldharry]

Re: TAYLOR\'S PARA-FIN

Trouble with Paraffin for me is it has been the direct cause of the only boat fire I ever experienced at first hand. Burning paraffin leaking out all over the galley and dripping - still burning into the bilges.....

Fortunately the on board fire blanket was man enough for the job. But it made a fair old mess all the same.

 

[Mirelle]

Re: What for?

No, I don't. Never have. Having a boat of antique* design, we stow a 9ft stem dinghy on deck, which carries wife 2 children and cat whilst I either row or sail it. When stowed upside down on the coachroof, on passage, the dinghy acts as a forst class rainproof ventilator.

*or, as some of us would put it, "proper"...