Gas rage!

[rotrax]

So...not cooking with electric then? If you're using gas I'm not sure what your point is, you have more solar and use more electric and your results are about the same as mine, except in Ireland the gas company is slightly more competent ?

No, far better than yours. You clearly stated that your 200W did not keep up with normal sailing loads and the fridge on your trip. My batteries are a minimum of 12.8 by early morning, soon back to float voltage. It sounds like your 200W is too little, my 400W is about right. We are running two fridges and a freezer 24/7. At the moment in Peel it is pissing down, very dull and my batteries are showing 13.1V. The freezer is drawing 4 Amps and seven overhead lights in the galley area are drawing another Amp.. When it stops, up goes the voltage at the gauge. I have not externally charged the batteries since May 12, apart from engine use, when the install was completed. If we sail overnight we use eight to ten Amps with the nav lights, instruments and autohelm. OK, only done overnights during June and July's short nights, but the bank easily keeps up.

We have no inverter but cook electric by using shore power or the genset. We have a two ring halogen hob, a small flat grill, a toaster and a microwave.

I used 'Craigsolar' 1 metre square rigid 200W panels mounted on the rear of our large pilothouse roof where they get very little shading. They have perhaps a 5 degree tilt so rainwater runs off.

No problem with Calor in Ireland. We changed our empty at the Howth chandlers and found the hardware shop in Ardglass had plenty should we need it. I changed a not fully empty one in Londonderry because the Hire Shop had one for £21.00.

 

[Bodach na mara]

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure you will) but for 400W of solar power you need at least 2 square meters of panels. I have a single panel of about 0.7 sq. m and to fit it the cabin rooflight had to be removed. I have toyed with the idea of moving it to one side (it's on the centre line just now) and fitting a second one but then I would have nowhere to stand at the mast. I have a friend who has a Bavaria 38 who has looked at my arrangement and decided that he would not have enough room on the cabin roof to fit one.

Another thing, the theoretical output of my panel is about 100W but most of the time I get much less. Sorry for the thread drift but realistically cooking by electricity is practical only for boats that are a lot larger than the usual cruiser in our local waters or for those who have access to shore power every day.

 

[NormanS]

Are the problems with Calor butane only with the 4.5kg cylinders?
I use the 7kg cylinders and have had no problems getting full ones.

 

[lustyd]

Could not help but notice a good selection of FULL FloGas bottles in the compound.

Indeed. Today I actually went to some shops selling FloGas. No problem getting gas in various bottles, and B&M stores are stockists, as are BP garages by the look of it, both having changed from Calor so fingers crossed the tide is turning. My first new bottle is on order direct, and looks like they will deliver to marinas so maybe we don't need marinas to stock them, we can just cut them out of the loop.

 

[lustyd]

I fully understand that people don't want the expense for just a weekend boat.

My boat was out for 50 days straight this summer, and has had the investment (not Lithium yet, but extra capacity wouldn't have changed a thing) including 9 straight days at anchor. That's why I can categorically say it won't support electric cooking, I have the log data from very possibly the best summer we've had in recent memory.

 

[lustyd]

You clearly stated that your 200W did not keep up with normal sailing loads

Indeed. Usually we're up by mid morning to 100% but all it takes is a poorly oriented anchorage and you're stuffed, assuming you have a mast and other sailing paraphanalia. We anchor a lot and the reality is that sometimes you may be quite a few days without good charge. Theory is all well and good, but in the real world many things can interrupt your power, including enthusiastic seaguls.
If yours keeps up for such long periods then you've been very lucky with your locations, although doubling capacity may help. I couldn't fit another 200W on my boat without serious compromise to the looks and sailing. I'm sure if I wanted my boat to look like Calico Skies on YouTube I could manage easily, but 'm not quite ready for the full homeless look just yet!

 

[Clunk]

FloGas 4.5KG is identical dimensions but uses a push on regulator, so actually a bit more convenient. They seem to have plenty too.

4.5kg Butane Gas Cylinder With 20mm Regulator | Flogas

The thing we all need to do is ask marinas to stock these available cylinders so we can use them conveniently. Even without marinas doing the right thing, it's more convenient to drive or swap one at home than to use Calor and wait who knows how many years for a cup of tea!

I thought that after checking dimensions, talking on the phone to them, going to the flogas sales centre went and bought 2 bottles, with new contract but the flogas don't fit in my locker, height wise by 2cm.

 

[rotrax]

First Mate and I are living in the real world, been away since May 22nd and not home until mid October.

Our boat readily lends itself to 2 square metres of Solar, pretty much unshaded. The aesthetics are not really affected. Indeed, some might say she looks pretty awfull without the Solar . You really have to be above the Pilothouse to see the panels. On your first look at our boat from a pontoon you would not be aware of the roof mounted panels. Our locations have been many and varied, the current one in Peel being the worst, surrounded as it is by hills, followed by Belfasts Abercorn Basin with its high rise buildings shading the boat.

We have a 50 foot mast, boom and three sails. The biggest culprit for panel shading are the twin backstays, one with the boathook in my custom made holder fixed to it.

Depending, of course, what direction we are facing the sun..........................

 

[sailaboutvic]

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure you will) but for 400W of solar power you need at least 2 square meters of panels. I have a single panel of about 0.7 sq. m and to fit it the cabin rooflight had to be removed. I have toyed with the idea of moving it to one side (it's on the centre line just now) and fitting a second one but then I would have nowhere to stand at the mast. I have a friend who has a Bavaria 38 who has looked at my arrangement and decided that he would not have enough room on the cabin roof to fit one.

Another thing, the theoretical output of my panel is about 100W but most of the time I get much less. Sorry for the thread drift but realistically cooking by electricity is practical only for boats that are a lot larger than the usual cruiser in our local waters or for those who have access to shore power every day.

Here you go 780w solar
400ah bank
She sold now but I will be looking At putting solar and lithium on our lastest boat

 

[lustyd]

Depending, of course, what direction we are facing the sun

100% this. Our main culprit was up the Dart between Dittisham and Stoke Gabriel. The tides for the 5 days we stayed meant the boat was pointed due south for the whole middle of the day, and the mast and roller headsail are at the front! Amazing anchorage, real peace and quiet and great protection despite strong tidal currents. Solar panels don't like being used as sundials though ?

Your boat certainly sounds better set up to accept more solar, but I have to jump back to the average yacht here with no pilot house or solar arches, and mid-high 30s length-wise.

 

[Pete7]

Sorry for the thread drift but realistically cooking by electricity is practical only for boats that are a lot larger than the usual cruiser in our local waters or for those who have access to shore power every day.

I disagree Over Easter in sunny conditions we spent two days cooking only on electric from solar and batteries after the shore power cable was found to have melted. With 300w of solar we generated 1.26Kwh each day, which left us a shortfall of about 360w. The mast shading the panel at mid day didn't help because we have since seen 1.4Kwh. We managed quite well using the induction hob, electric kettle and toaster, all draw 1kw. We plan to increase the solar to 600w giving us a bit of headway for inclement weather.

We have just bought and tested at home a Remoska which uses 512Wh (older model) and cooked a large Chicken, roast potatoes and veg in 75 minutes, so well within the capacity of our battery bank. We also have a Ninja air fryer, but that is a little too much for the inverter so shore power only. Another winter project.

We have kept the gas hob and grill on board for use during the winter or when at sea if its bouncy. However, using a mix of gas and electric halved our gas usage last year and I think we can get to a position were using gas is the exception. The Remoska is the key as it uses far less power compared to an electric oven.

Pete

 

[lustyd]

I thought that after checking dimensions, talking on the phone to them, going to the flogas sales centre went and bought 2 bottles, with new contract but the flogas don't fit in my locker, height wise by 2cm.

Thankfully I have a very average white boat and another owner has 4.5kg FloGas. He said it's snug but fits.

 

[lustyd]

I disagree Over Easter in sunny conditions we spent two days cooking only on electric from solar and batteries after the shore power cable was found to have melted. With 300w of solar we generated 1.26Kwh each day, which left us a shortfall of about 360w. The mast shading the panel at mid day didn't help because we have since seen 1.4Kwh, but we survived using the induction hob, electric kettle and toaster, all draw 1kw. We plan to increase the solar to 600w giving us a bit of headway for inclement weather.

This seems to be an anecdote on why ot doesn't work. You had great conditions and had a shortfall over a short trip. On a longer trip with worse conditions your batteries will go flat. Most average yachts won't support 600W of panels without serious scaffold being built.

 

[Pete7]

This seems to be an anecdote on why it doesn't work. You had great conditions and had a shortfall over a short trip. On a longer trip with worse conditions your batteries will go flat. Most average yachts won't support 600W of panels without serious scaffold being built.

No, we had shade across the panel at mid day for a couple of hours each day. Being tied to a pontoon there wasn't much we could do about it. However, there is a balance to be found between demand and supply which we are working on to meet our needs, so it is achievable even on a smaller 31ft yacht.

There is of course the option of shore power or using the alternator for an hour to top up the house bank if necessary, as we did twice during last summers cruise. We have an arch on the stern which should take 600w but won't be going as far as Sailing Sophisticated Lady on YT with all the other junk

Pete

 

[lustyd]

There is of course the option of shore power

Not if you're actually out cruising, that's kind of the point. sustainably cooking away from the dock means you need to be able to meet your demands every single day for weeks at a time regardless of weather or location. If you think it's hard to control the sun in a marina, try anchoring for a week or two!

 

[Pete7]

Actually, during a three week cruise last August I don't think we used shore power. 300w gave us a good mix of electric and gas cooking and needed only a couple of top ups from the alternator, not bad for a summer cruise. So we just need a bit more solar.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Not sure why some won't except that cooking on electric is possibly,
The last couple of years as full time liveaboard we managed it fine ,
We still kept the gas for when we was out at sea .
it's just a matter of getting the setup right and managing it, no different to managing power on a small boat batteries bank .

 

[lustyd]

Not sure why some won't except that cooking on electric is possibly,
The last couple of years as full time liveaboard we managed it fine ,
We still kept the gas for when we was out at sea .
it's just a matter of getting the setup right and managing it, no different to managing power on a small boat batteries bank .

Why did you use gas while at sea if electric is sustainable and suitable?

 

[NormanS]

Why did you use gas while at sea if electric is sustainable and suitable?

Trailing cable from the shore too short. ?

 

[lustyd]

Trailing cable from the shore too short. ?

Exactly. If I had to plug in I’d be staying in a hotel, not a boat.