Gas rage!

[ylop]

You don't know the contract then?
Is the one for Flogas the same?

A colleague of mine who used to deliver for calor last century (so bear in mind this is old info and he was a driver not the head of legal!) said many of the cages the cylinders are kept in were supplied by Calor and so could only be used for Calor cylinders. Switching to a different provider would mean new cages (who pays?) and unless you switch completely more space etc. some locations needed planning permission for a gas cage. that’s a big hassle and investment for a product that probably makes a marina no real money and is just a convenience for its customers. Effectively calor do have a monopoly in the marina market. A bunch of yachties who complain about the cost (even though it’s probably less than a meal ashore for the crew!) and buy as little as possible is not that appealing a market. If you are the marina manager you can currently blame calor, if you are calor you don’t care because yacht sales will be <1% of total sales. If you are flogas - it’s all good news but not worth you subsiding marinas shifting over because the volumes are low and most yachts have the wrong fittings - those who will change will drive to collect from your existing infrastructure.

 

[DJE]

How much gas do people use? I have two 4.5kg butane bottles and if both full they will last me 18 months to two years. When one runs out there is no panic to get it replaced away from home (and it I'm in France that's not an option anyway.) So having a supply at my home marina is nice but by no means essential. Finding that replacement bottle recently allowed me to put off the decision on switching to Flogas by another year or so.

 

[NormanS]

I use two 7kg Calor Butane per year, and have experienced no problems exchanging that size of bottles.

 

[Boathook]

Already done. The purpose of the thread is to inform others and try to get support from our marinas and chandleries to supply alternative options more conveniently. For some reason, some members here are quite resistant to these alternative options and keen that Calor remain the only locally available gas. I can't work out why, but every time the trolls post the thread gets more visibility so that's a win for me.

I have no problem with other suppliers but I want to be able to change a cylinder at most ports. Calor used to enable this. I am lucky in that I could modify my storage to take a slightly taller gas bottle but presently can't be bothered.

 

[Boathook]

How much gas do people use? I have two 4.5kg butane bottles and if both full they will last me 18 months to two years. When one runs out there is no panic to get it replaced away from home (and it I'm in France that's not an option anyway.) So having a supply at my home marina is nice but by no means essential. Finding that replacement bottle recently allowed me to put off the decision on switching to Flogas by another year or so.

Upto a 4.5Kg bottle per week. I do have a gas fridge on board though if in marinas I normally use mains electrics. The last few proper holidays, the gas consumption was right down as little cooking was done being so warm, so a bottle was lasting well over 2 weeks.
I might change to an electric fridge, but it requires a freezer compartment and I will need to 'beef' up my battery bank and solar panels.

 

[ylop]

Upto a 4.5Kg bottle per week. I do have a gas fridge on board though if in marinas I normally use mains electrics. The last few proper holidays, the gas consumption was right down as little cooking was done being so warm, so a bottle was lasting well over 2 weeks.
I might change to an electric fridge, but it requires a freezer compartment and I will need to 'beef' up my battery bank and solar panels.

Have you ruled out a leak?

 

[Whaup367]

Upto a 4.5Kg bottle per week. ...

Ouch. A quick BOTE calculation suggests that switching even to 7Kg ones would save you about £40 for every seven weeks on board (though if using Calor you'd need to change regulators, as discussed at length above). I think in your shoes I'd be looking for ways to achieve that for convenience, as well as for ecomomy. You must be doing a fair bit of cooking on board!

 

[lustyd]

How much gas do people use? I have two 4.5kg butane bottles and if both full they will last me 18 months to two years. When one runs out there is no panic to get it replaced away from home (and it I'm in France that's not an option anyway.) So having a supply at my home marina is nice but by no means essential. Finding that replacement bottle recently allowed me to put off the decision on switching to Flogas by another year or so.

I think it comes down more to how you use it. This year we did a 2 month cruise and the first bottle ran out after a week (having spent 6 months trying to swap it despite not being empty). The second bottle was then used sparingly as you can imagine. We didn't see a single full bottle for the remainder of that cruise and now several months later still have not. Out of curiosity I still ask everywhere I go and have yet to see a change in response.

If I were weekend cruising and just making cups of tea, sure the bottles would last forever. That wouldn't change things though, the problem would be the same just over different time periods.

 

[Whaup367]

Oh, btw, for the wider readership: My local filling station has a couple of 7Kgs in stock at the moment. No 4.5s, yet, but I would guess that they are not a priority for them at this time of year. I'll go back to looking for new bottles when passing likely suppliers to see if my recent sightings are just a blip!

 

[geem]

How much gas do people use? I have two 4.5kg butane bottles and if both full they will last me 18 months to two years. When one runs out there is no panic to get it replaced away from home (and it I'm in France that's not an option anyway.) So having a supply at my home marina is nice but by no means essential. Finding that replacement bottle recently allowed me to put off the decision on switching to Flogas by another year or so.

An 8kg gas bottle lasts us 6 to 8 weeks depending on how much we use the oven. This is fulltime living aboard. My wife loves to cook so the cooker gets a lot of use.

 

[alahol2]

How much gas do people use?

Just checked. Our last 4.5Kg butane lasted about 3 months (40 days, 27 nights aboard).

 

[NormanS]

Is it possible that we are being gently persuaded to change to bottles with clip on regulators? My recollection from long ago, is that with the 4.5kg bottles, the regulator nut requires a flat rubber washer, for which the user is responsible. The bottles designed for clip on regulators have no such responsibilities, and are therefore intrinsically safer. I may be mistaken in this, as I've had clip on type bottles now for many years. I remember delivering a yacht a long time ago, and discovering a leak at the screw on regulator, caused by a defective washer.

 

[Mister E]

A colleague of mine who used to deliver for calor last century (so bear in mind this is old info and he was a driver not the head of legal!) said many of the cages the cylinders are kept in were supplied by Calor and so could only be used for Calor cylinders. Switching to a different provider would mean new cages (who pays?) and unless you switch completely more space etc. some locations needed planning permission for a gas cage. that’s a big hassle and investment for a product that probably makes a marina no real money and is just a convenience for its customers. Effectively calor do have a monopoly in the marina market. A bunch of yachties who complain about the cost (even though it’s probably less than a meal ashore for the crew!) and buy as little as possible is not that appealing a market. If you are the marina manager you can currently blame calor, if you are calor you don’t care because yacht sales will be <1% of total sales. If you are flogas - it’s all good news but not worth you subsiding marinas shifting over because the volumes are low and most yachts have the wrong fittings - those who will change will drive to collect from your existing infrastructure.

Confession Time I know that Flogas have the same restrictions on storing other makes of bottles in their cages.
So the problem for some is the retailers not being willing to change.
The smaller bottles are a pain for gas suppliers.

 

[Whaup367]

Confession Time I know that Flogas have the same restrictions on storing other makes of bottles in their cages.
So the problem for some is the retailers not being willing to change.
The smaller bottles are a pain for gas suppliers.

..and the bigger ones for boaters. You can see where the tension arises!

 

[Mister E]

..and the bigger ones for boaters. You can see where the tension arises!

I do

 

[Whaup367]

Is it possible that we are being gently persuaded to change to bottles with clip on regulators? My recollection from long ago, is that with the 4.5kg bottles, the regulator nut requires a flat rubber washer, for which the user is responsible. The bottles designed for clip on regulators have no such responsibilities, and are therefore intrinsically safer. I may be mistaken in this, as I've had clip on type bottles now for many years. I remember delivering a yacht a long time ago, and discovering a leak at the screw on regulator, caused by a defective washer.

I don't think there's anyone pushing that. It would take a fair bit of work for Calor, as they must have a lot of threaded cylinders in circulation, with an established (Loyal? Locked in?) customer base that would have to adapt. FloGas already supply clip-on 4.5s but most of the other smaller suppliers don't seem keen to stock this size- presumably because of the profitability, as mentioned above, but also perhaps because the customers that seek them out tend to be users of the bigger sizes(?). I suspect this is one of the things that triggers persistent rumours (still unconfirmed, AFAIK) that these small cylinders might be discontinued but, as I mentioned above, I think if there was a strategy to achieve this then the recent disruption would have been an opportunity that wouldn't have been passed up.
The same logic applies to changing connectors... It would have been an ideal time for Calor to "respond to the changes in the market" ( ) by promoting a change to clip-on regs. If this was their strategy, they have missed it.

 

[Boathook]

Have you ruled out a leak?

No leak. Just a gas fridge running 24 hours a day as I try to avoid marinas.

 

[Ian_Edwards]

Hi,
I emailed Calor directly, to a contact I've used before.
This the email I sent:

I hear persistent rumors that Calor are phasing out the 4kg butane and 3.9kg propane gas cylinders.
Is this true?

Many caravans, motorhomes and yachts have dedicated gas storage, designed for the 4kg/3.9kg gas cylinders. If these cylinders are withdrawn you’ll have lot of very unhappy people looking for alternatives to Calor.

This is the reply from Calor:

Good morning,

We have made no decisions to supress the 4.5kgs or the 3.9kgs. We are still continuing to fill and distribute all cylinders that pass through our health and safety checks.

Kind regards,

Make of it as you will, but as far as I can see, they are probably still struggling with the rise in demand for 4kg and 3.9kg cylinder, most of which are probably sitting disused in garages and shed, and an inability to secure a supply of new cylinders which pass their safety inspection.

 

[lustyd]

an inability to secure a supply of new cylinders

This would be trivial, they could just get them back from customers garages and sheds. The problem is they have no process to do this without already having a full cylinder. If they were either competent or motivated cylinder stock would be a solved issue. If this is genuinely the root issue they appear to be hoping magic will fix it, because they aren't taking any action.

They can't even fill cylinders in retailer cages as again they require themselves to have a full one to swap. Again, a simple process could fix this.

 

[dgadee]

Indeed. I have a spare one but not giving it up without a refill.