Gas rage!

[Whaup367]

... they have a monopoly. ... a monopoly. ... they are a monopoly. ... they’re a monopoly!

(I'm not really trying to argue, more inform. I appreciate that's not what this thread is trying to achieve and I apologise for veering off-topic).

 

[lustyd]

You’re not informing anything. You clearly don’t understand monopolies and have a very simplistic view of them. Calor have previously been declared a monopoly and are currently fighting a charge again which they will very likely lose. With any luck that will force the situation and they’ll be broken up. The existence of competitors does not preclude them from being in a monopolist position nor of abusing that position as they clearly are. Most monopoly charges are against companies with competition in the market, Microsoft for instance had plenty of competition in the browser market both free and commercial yet received record fines and other penalties.

 

[BobnLesley]

... If it’s impossible to get non calor... Only calor available... They have successfully prevented competition...

But as many, now including yourself, are using another source, none of those are true.

Even though they’ve not supplied gas cylinders for three straight years..

Well some people, perhaps including yourself again, have secured exchanges during the last three years, so this too is surely untrue?

 

[lustyd]

Only if your brain works entirely literally. If that’s the case, try to compensate. The ability to very occasionally refill is not the same as regular supply. In fact it’s the sporadic refills of just enough cylinders to pretend it’s ok that causes the biggest headache as we’re all left in a perpetual state of almost running out with out a refill. If there were zero refills I’m sure more people would make the leap. As above those are the actions of a monopolist protecting their market, not a supplier getting back to normal.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Go to Greece. I get my 907's refilled for 6 euro a pop. Mind you the guy that does it doesn't seem too mind about health and safety much.

Cool just six Euro ,
I guess the flight would make it a touch expenses

 

[rotrax]

Only if your brain works entirely literally. If that’s the case, try to compensate. The ability to very occasionally refill is not the same as regular supply. In fact it’s the sporadic refills of just enough cylinders to pretend it’s ok that causes the biggest headache as we’re all left in a perpetual state of almost running out with out a refill. If there were zero refills I’m sure more people would make the leap. As above those are the actions of a monopolist protecting their market, not a supplier getting back to normal.

A very long thread which does not reflect what I find when changing my 3.9 propane cylinders. Late last year, hard to get. Early this year, hard to get. Not impossible, just needed a bit of searching out. Now, no trouble.
Calor are, IMHO, a pretty shit company. The dealers, on the other hand, can only play the cards they are dealt.
I changed to propane. Glad I did. For the cost of a new pipe.
I would not be without cooking gas on my boat just because a particular size cylinder was unavailable.
I have the ingenuity and skill to adapt and fit a larger bottle externally.

 

[NormanS]

"I have the ingenuity and skill to adapt and fit a larger bottle externally".
Says it all really.

 

[lustyd]

The dealers, on the other hand, can only play the cards they are dealt.

Indeed, they could quite easily supply a second alternative from a reputable supplier. Curious then that they don’t, isn’t it, given the lengthy nature of the problems.

I could indeed have fitted a larger cylinder but drilling holes in my boat for a temporary fix seemed like a stupid idea compared to changing supplier. Rewarding Calor for their negligence is incredibly low on my list, I wonder why sticking with them despite a required change in regulator, pipe work and new gas locker is your first go to thought?

 

[Mister E]

If Calor dealers can easily supply from another supplier, how is that a monopoly?
To me it is not.
If you have a problem getting the bottle you want then look at the Gaslow or Gasit refillable bottles

 

[Whaup367]

You’re not informing anything.

Are you sure? I was informing cpedw that he can easily get Calor 4.5s locally; I was informing Stemar that he would probably need to swap regulators and buy a new bottle (rather than carrying out a straight swap; and might find it more difficult to exchange cylinders than would be ideal) and I was informing the wider readership that I had spotted signs that the current difficulties might (or might not) be starting to be mitigated.

You clearly don’t understand monopolies and have a very simplistic view of them.

monopoly
1. the exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service.

Calor have previously been declared a monopoly and are currently fighting a charge again which they will very likely lose. With any luck that will force the situation and they’ll be broken up. The existence of competitors does not preclude them from being in a monopolist position nor of abusing that position as they clearly are. Most monopoly charges are against companies with competition in the market, Microsoft for instance had plenty of competition in the browser market both free and commercial yet received record fines and other penalties.

OK, whatever... Looks like I'm not understanding the term as you are using it (maybe that's the problem with "inform", too? ). I did have a trawl back through this thread to find the reference you said had been made to previous charges against them (#186) but couldn't find anything. Maybe that was in a different thread? Maybe you meant something else? If you can point me to it, that would be informative. As would any solid evidence supporting your claim that they are planning to discontinue 4.5s, since it would be good to kill or confirm that rumour!

Indeed, they could quite easily supply a second alternative from a reputable supplier. Curious then that they don’t, isn’t it, given the lengthy nature of the problems.

Could they, though? That seems to be the main thrust of this thread but it would be helpful if you could clarify just how easy that would be. I don't know the details of the contracts that Marinas have with Calor, or would need to sign with other suppliers (presumably there would need to be many of them to avoid replacing one dominant supplier with another) but it seems to me that we would end up with a complex mix of stockists, varying levels of exchange support and probably a continuing stuation with incompatible regulator fittings. I can see solutions to those but implementing them would be complex and time-consuming (and probably need expensive public information campaigns).

Maybe you would clarify how you see this working. I don't think it's even quite as "simple" as getting all the marinas in the country to change to Flogas or another supplier whilst persuading all boaters currently using Calor 4.5s to change to clip on regulators; and TBH, I don't see that as trivial!

I could indeed have fitted a larger cylinder but drilling holes in my boat for a temporary fix seemed like a stupid idea compared to changing supplier. Rewarding Calor for their negligence is incredibly low on my list, I wonder why sticking with them despite a required change in regulator, pipe work and new gas locker is your first go to thought?

Maybe because the vast majority of marinas, harbours and nearby filling stations exchange Calor, so putting up with a bit of difficulty finding a replacement cylinder for a season or so (some or most(?) people's experience- not mine and I appreciate that it's not yours) is a better option for them? Maybe there are other reasons but your approach seems to me to be motivated by antipathy towards Calor, rather then expedience. If (and I say again, since you seem to think I'm in their pocket, it's a significant "if"!) they resolve the issues they have reluctantly conceded exist, then in a season or two we can presumably go back to a situation where we can call into virtually any full-service marina, boatyard or harbour and swap an empty Calor for a full one on demand.
You seem to think I'm defending them (even accusing me of being on their payroll?) but I think you are underestimating the complexities of your proposed solution, so if it really would be as easy as you say, please explain how it would pan out?

 

[lustyd]

If Calor dealers can easily supply from another supplier, how is that a monopoly?
To me it is not.
If you have a problem getting the bottle you want then look at the Gaslow or Gasit refillable bottles

They can, yet for some reason for three years chose not to sell any gas. That’s a strange decision for any retailer to make, don’t you think? Perhaps there’s something that prevents them selling another brand in the contract, even if only implied.

 

[lustyd]

That seems to be the main thrust of this thread but it would be helpful if you could clarify just how easy that would be. I don't know the details of the contracts that Marinas have with Calor, or would need to sign with other suppliers (presumably there would need to be many of them to avoid replacing one dominant supplier with another) but it seems to me that we would end up with a complex mix of stockists, varying levels of exchange support and probably a continuing stuation with incompatible regulator fittings. I can see solutions to those but implementing them would be complex and time-consuming (and probably need expensive public information campaigns).

What you describe here is monopoly behaviour, I can’t understand how you can’t see that (although perhaps you’re just being argumentative for fun). Elsewhere it works fine, France have 5 or 6 suppliers all in stock in many outlets side by side, mostly with compatible valves from what I could see. If you consider it complex to have two or three choices then Your life must truly be hell.

 

[Mister E]

You don't know the contract then?
Is the one for Flogas the same?

 

[lustyd]

You don't know the contract then?
Is the one for Flogas the same?

I don’t need to know the contract to see how bad the situation is. You seem curiously in favour of a single supplier market where supply is unavailable for years at a time.

 

[Mister E]

I don’t need to know the contract to see how bad the situation is. You seem curiously in favour of a single supplier market where supply is unavailable for years at a time.

Quite wrong assumption I am interested to find out how much you know about the supply problem.

 

[lustyd]

Quite wrong assumption I am interested to find out how much you know about the supply problem.

Not sure what you think you’d gain, seems like pointless trolling to me. The supply issues are widely documented, there’s no benefit to denying them. The unusual reluctance to change is also pretty easy to see for those willing to see it.

 

[rotrax]

lustyd - we dont live in a perfect world and never have. This year I borrowed a spare 3.9 Propane for our four and a half month trip. We did not need it. Got relacement's in Howth and Londonderry. Marina's had Propane in more quantity than Butane. You know the reason why.

Calor is a crap company. Before we left on May 22nd I got a full 3.9 at the local garden centre. I checked with the Didcot Calor agent who was expecting propane 3,9's the next week. He now has shedloads. Not so much Butane. You know the reason why.

Instead of bitching on here, mitigate the situation like I have.

Change to the one that has better supply.

 

[oldgit]

Spotted 6 or 7 4.5 k. Butane in the gas cage in Chatham MDL.
Pointed to them hopefully.
Man on duty said your having a larf matey........
They all empty.
Not seen any full bottles for ages.

 

[Pete7]

Yikes, someone is having a laugh: Full Sealed Camping Gaz 907 gas bottles – Camping Cooking Supplies – Lee-on-the-Solent | Facebook Marketplace

My friendly re-filler said Calor now owned by the Dutch whose mission is to sell gas. So they want to fill larger cylinders because they hold more

 

[lustyd]

lustyd - we dont live in a perfect world and never have. This year I borrowed a spare 3.9 Propane for our four and a half month trip. We did not need it. Got relacement's in Howth and Londonderry. Marina's had Propane in more quantity than Butane. You know the reason why.

Calor is a crap company. Before we left on May 22nd I got a full 3.9 at the local garden centre. I checked with the Didcot Calor agent who was expecting propane 3,9's the next week. He now has shedloads. Not so much Butane. You know the reason why.

Instead of bitching on here, mitigate the situation like I have.

Change to the one that has better supply.

Already done. The purpose of the thread is to inform others and try to get support from our marinas and chandleries to supply alternative options more conveniently. For some reason, some members here are quite resistant to these alternative options and keen that Calor remain the only locally available gas. I can't work out why, but every time the trolls post the thread gets more visibility so that's a win for me.