Gas fittings

[dog]

Hi all, I am hoping that someone may be able to help me...... I have an '87 Fairline Carrera and am in the process of fitting a Smev oven and 3 burner hob. The existing boat pipework is 1/4 inch copper and the new appliances run on 5/16. I now have a tail of existing 1/4'' ready to connect to the appliances. The oven/hob have 5/16'' flexible pipe connected. Can I fit the 5/16'' onto the 1/4'' and clamp down with a jubilee clip to the smaller size or is this a no-no?

Sorry if a bit long winded, but hope it all makes sense!! I am trying to keep the number of connections to a minimum for obvious reasons.

Thanks in advance

Brian

 

[Malcb]

Definitely, definitly not.

Search for the correct reduction fitting. You're correct in trying to keep the number of connections to a minimum, but connections should be made using the correct gas tight fittings.

 

[VicS]

You'll probably find what you need on This page of the calor marine site, but others have found their p&p excessive on small orders. So identify what you need and then buy it over the counter elsewhere.

Happy birthday malcb

 

[dog]

VicS- thanks very much for the Calor link, have just ordered the correct part.

Brian

 

[Talbot]

strongly recommend that you run new pipework at 5/16 to replace the old copper line. It is probably getting brittle and is too small a cross section for the new cooker.

once you have completed the installation you need to check for leaks - a gas engineer should do this. I also have a gaslow pressure guage fitted, which should remain with pressure in the line after you switch all your gas equipment off, thus will show if you have a leak.

Lots of people live very safely with LPG, but only if they follow simple safety precautions.

 

[steve_cronin]

Crimping down of ANY rubber pipe is dangerous...

A proper flexible armoured pipe with clenched end terminals is available from most chandlers or even caravan shops (& these should be replaced every three years). This should go to a bulkhead/wall gascock fitting to which your (single run with no joints, preferrably) supply pipe is rigidly connected with the correct compression joint.

If it were me I would also take this opportunity to replace the supply pipe with 5/16 right back from the bottle to ensure adequate flow and have the peace of mind of a safe installation. A long time ago I knew someone who lost his wife in a waterways gas accident and only a couple of months ago a customer who I knew then had just bought his first motor cruiser made it onto local TV when it blew apart. You only get one chance with gas on a boat.

What you suggest is a "bodge" and nothing more. Insurance companies aren't fans of bodges - except of course it gives them a real opportunity to save a packet by refusing your claim, that is assuming that you're still around to collect!

Steve Cronin

 

[Guest]

Re: Gas fittings ... better late than never ...

The local caravan shops at the dealers are best for all this sort of thing - it's literally on shelf and most will gladly help you if you need advise etc.

The Calor Fitter at one dealers told me this : The gas piping is intentionally soft and easily bent when new and shiny. You bend to shape / contours you need to fit your installation. Fit joints etc. Once fitted that's it. You shouldn't try bending / changing that pipe later as it hardens with the bending and age. It is designed to. If you need to change the runetc. then replace.

I know there are Gas people on the forum and I would be pleased if one could confirm that or not ? I have always followed what he said and it seems to be true. When I've removed an older run of pipe it often cracks or shows signs of not liking being rebent to get it out .....

Caravan dealers shops - also applies to lighting 12 & 240, water pipe / faucets etc. etc. Even to inline / submerged / self-priming pumps etc.

 

[steverow]

Re: Gas fittings ... better late than never ...

Even if you want something marine only, often a caravan shop will get it for you.
Reason: they use common wholsalers mainly the Burden group..now all part of the Unipart group along with Mark Dowland Marine.
There are more similarities than differences between caravanning and boating (having done both), and my first call is usually a caravan shop for any domestic type boat fittings, hobs, cookers fridges...pipework, lamps...so much cheaper than chandlers as a rule.


Steve.

Ste

 

[PCUK]

Re: Gas fittings ... better late than never ...

It's not my intention to be rude but I think in view of your question, your best course of action would be to install everything and then get a CORGI man to come and pipe it all up.

 

[oldsaltoz]

Will you still have valid insurance cover without a gas certificate?

 

[misterg]

Re: Gas fittings ... better late than never ...

[ QUOTE ]
The Calor Fitter at one dealers told me this : The gas piping is intentionally soft and easily bent when new and shiny. You bend to shape / contours you need to fit your installation. Fit joints etc. Once fitted that's it. You shouldn't try bending / changing that pipe later as it hardens with the bending and age. It is designed to. If you need to change the runetc. then replace.

... I would be pleased if one could confirm that or not ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing particularly special about the pipe - it is annealed copper, so is relatively soft & ductile (and can be bent easily in this state). Any deformation (e.g. bending) work hardens the metal, and makes it far less ductile - meaning it will crack or kink rather than bending again. (Same as breaking a wire by bending it backwards and forwards repeatedly).

Although it would be possible to "undo" the work hardening (restore the ductility) by re-annealing, the advice to use new pipe when re-routing is probably best. It's not dear.

I'm not convinced that it hardens with age alone, though. (The copper, you smut monsters! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif)

Andy

(not gas person, but used-to-be metallurgist)

 

[Guest]

Insurance ...

If its a "sea-going", tidal boat .. and not inland waterways ......... Corgi fitter is not required. (UK we are talking about ....)
The problem comes when a Surveyor protects himself by putting such rec'd in his report. Then Insurance Co. love it ... they require it.

It's one of those areas that if you say nothing to Ins. Co. - nothings said or required. Ask them and of course you are now looking at finding such fitter.

There are thousands of non Inland Waterway boats without gas certificates .... mine included. (But I don't play or fiddle with my installation .... it has a leak detector at the bottle etc.)

 

[Guest]

Interesting that Gas rec\'d system ...

Has various connections, wall fittings, etc. etc. and unless changed recently - was not a single run pipe.

As to rubber pipe. It is quite common that the "stove" is connected via a BS spec. "rubber" hose to allow gimballing / movement of such. Also that regulator is connected to similar type hose and then to fixed pipe.

Yes the later more modern "flexible armoured pipe with clenched end terminals" is available and well advised ...

I'm always a little averse to factory connections though ... as you say - you only get one chance with gas ... I hope that the crimped connections etc. are better than many other crimped connections I've seen - even on quality gear !
/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[dog]

Thanks for all the very usefull and intersting views. I will indeed check with my insurance company about the need for a certificate. In light of the fact I work as a project manager within the building industry and regularly see so called 'specialist' works completed either badly or incorrectly, Im afraid that on many tasks the only person I trust to carry it out is myself. I belive that many folk fall into the trap of thinking that a lot of trades are a black art- and they simply are not. I will heed the advice given here to replace the whole run in 5/16 myself and then follow the rules and have a CORGI man do the mandatory checks.

Thanks again folks.

 

[Alastairdent]

I have rebuilt the gas piping on a couple of boats now, to meet inland waterways regs.

Firstly, ALWAYS use the correct fitting. When going from copper to flexible pipe, the copper must be fitted with hosetails and the clips must be decent marine/hi-tensile S/S ones.

Secondly, I urge you to fit a bubble tester - these enable you to check for leaks without tools.

See ASAP supplies for most of the fittings. They do small orders at reasonable charge rates.

 

[steve_cronin]

Man after me own heart!

Steve Cronin

 

[Bejasus]

yes, you should definitely run the whole line in 5/16th if that is what the cooker is designed to use. Any reduction will cause the burners to run inefficiently and you will be able to see this by the flames burning yellow, giving incomplete combustion.

 

[Alastairdent]

5/16 is very close to 8mm. 8mm microbore is cheap from any diy store, so I'd replace it with this.

You may have to go to a plumber's merchant's for the fittings, as diy stores typically sell fittings with brass olives. Copper must be used on gas installations. The brass is too hard to form a good seal all the time.

To give you an idea of the costs, I bought 20m of 10mm piping from b&q for £24 recently. Use electrical cable glands where the pipework passes through bulkheads and compression fittings with copper olives.No special skills required.