beserksail
Well-Known Member
Can Fulmar keel bolts be withdrawn from inside the boat or are they cast into the keel as suggested by boatyard.
Fulmar keel bolts
- Thread starter beserksail
- Start date
Juggler7823
Well-Known Member
As far as I know, they are threaded into tapped holes in the keels. You need a big socket and a long extension handle!
S
Skyva_2
Guest
30boat
N/A
On iron keels the usual practice is to have the bolts threaded into the metal.On lead keels they're cast in.
Bodach na mara
Well-Known Member
"On iron keels the usual practice is to have the bolts threaded into the metal.On lead keels they're cast in."
It is a bit of a generalisation to say that. I have owned only three keel boats but have helped on others and all the lead keels have had through holes in the keel and bolts that passed right through from bottom to top. I understand that on some boats the bottom of the bolt is threaded with a "carrot" nut attached, but on mine the bronze bolts were formed with a splayed head formed by hammering. They were made in 1912 and when I drew them in 1968 (by digging three-foot deep pits under the keel) they were in good condition.
The boats that have had iron keels have varied as well. One had the keel through-bolted, but fortunately with carrot nuts, so removal involved driving the bolt down fat enough to remove the nut then pushing it up until it could be pulled form the top. On others, the keels had horizontal holes in them plugged with wooden plugs. The lower nuts were in these holes and it was a tricky job to remove these nuts, push the bolt up an inch or so, then pull it from the top.
On my current boat, the bolts are actually studs, threaded into the iron keel. I understand they go into the keel about 3 to 4 inches. They are retained at the top by double nuts. The survey recommends removal of some studs for inspection. That will be the problem this winter. I managed to get a spanner onto the upper nut of the one I wish to start with but there is no room within the narrow bilge to turn it, and I cannot get any leverage. Then this will remove only the nuts. Any ideas on how to get the actual studs out?
As to torque (which is mentioned in the thread link above) I watched a yard worker tightening up the bolts on the bilge keels of a Westerly Berwick at Hamble Poimt when they were the main Westerly dealers. He was using a massive long box spanner that looked as if it had been made from scaffolding pipe. For a tommy bar, he was using a 6 foot long bit of 1" diameter shafting passing through the top of the box. He had one hand on each end and was using his full strength to turn the nut.
It is a bit of a generalisation to say that. I have owned only three keel boats but have helped on others and all the lead keels have had through holes in the keel and bolts that passed right through from bottom to top. I understand that on some boats the bottom of the bolt is threaded with a "carrot" nut attached, but on mine the bronze bolts were formed with a splayed head formed by hammering. They were made in 1912 and when I drew them in 1968 (by digging three-foot deep pits under the keel) they were in good condition.
The boats that have had iron keels have varied as well. One had the keel through-bolted, but fortunately with carrot nuts, so removal involved driving the bolt down fat enough to remove the nut then pushing it up until it could be pulled form the top. On others, the keels had horizontal holes in them plugged with wooden plugs. The lower nuts were in these holes and it was a tricky job to remove these nuts, push the bolt up an inch or so, then pull it from the top.
On my current boat, the bolts are actually studs, threaded into the iron keel. I understand they go into the keel about 3 to 4 inches. They are retained at the top by double nuts. The survey recommends removal of some studs for inspection. That will be the problem this winter. I managed to get a spanner onto the upper nut of the one I wish to start with but there is no room within the narrow bilge to turn it, and I cannot get any leverage. Then this will remove only the nuts. Any ideas on how to get the actual studs out?
As to torque (which is mentioned in the thread link above) I watched a yard worker tightening up the bolts on the bilge keels of a Westerly Berwick at Hamble Poimt when they were the main Westerly dealers. He was using a massive long box spanner that looked as if it had been made from scaffolding pipe. For a tommy bar, he was using a 6 foot long bit of 1" diameter shafting passing through the top of the box. He had one hand on each end and was using his full strength to turn the nut.
Keith 66
Well-Known Member
I can see me having fun with keelbolts on my Sabre next year. It is essential to have a good fitting socket or box spanner. If you have access to an air wrench this should get the nuts off quicker.
There is such a beast as a stud extractor, which consists of a high strength forging with hole through it that slips over the stud a cam then bites into the stud when a tommy bar is applied to the top. Use of one of these will almost certainly write the stud off for re use. If there is not a lot of room it may be possible to weld the nut on & turn the stud out that way.
Of course when you break one you have a big drilling & tapping job.
There is such a beast as a stud extractor, which consists of a high strength forging with hole through it that slips over the stud a cam then bites into the stud when a tommy bar is applied to the top. Use of one of these will almost certainly write the stud off for re use. If there is not a lot of room it may be possible to weld the nut on & turn the stud out that way.
Of course when you break one you have a big drilling & tapping job.
Richard10002
Well-Known Member
"On my current boat, the bolts are actually studs, threaded into the iron keel. I understand they go into the keel about 3 to 4 inches. They are retained at the top by double nuts. The survey recommends removal of some studs for inspection. That will be the problem this winter. I managed to get a spanner onto the upper nut of the one I wish to start with but there is no room within the narrow bilge to turn it, and I cannot get any leverage. Then this will remove only the nuts. Any ideas on how to get the actual studs out?
As to torque (which is mentioned in the thread link above) I watched a yard worker tightening up the bolts on the bilge keels of a Westerly Berwick at Hamble Poimt when they were the main Westerly dealers. He was using a massive long box spanner that looked as if it had been made from scaffolding pipe. For a tommy bar, he was using a 6 foot long bit of 1" diameter shafting passing through the top of the box. He had one hand on each end and was using his full strength to turn the nut. "
My keel studs were replaced a week or so ago. To get them out, the yard used a socket, a long extension, and something like the tommy bar you describe. They had to buy a 36mm socket with extra depth in order to accommodate the stud sticking out above the nut.
For those studs which didnt come out with the rusted on nuts, they used a second nut as a locking nut.
As to torque, they tightened them as tight as they could, (2 nuts locked to get the stud to the bottom of the hole, then 1 nut with full force on the long bar). No sign of a torque wrench.
No movement of the keel when she was lifted by the crane!!
As to torque (which is mentioned in the thread link above) I watched a yard worker tightening up the bolts on the bilge keels of a Westerly Berwick at Hamble Poimt when they were the main Westerly dealers. He was using a massive long box spanner that looked as if it had been made from scaffolding pipe. For a tommy bar, he was using a 6 foot long bit of 1" diameter shafting passing through the top of the box. He had one hand on each end and was using his full strength to turn the nut. "
My keel studs were replaced a week or so ago. To get them out, the yard used a socket, a long extension, and something like the tommy bar you describe. They had to buy a 36mm socket with extra depth in order to accommodate the stud sticking out above the nut.
For those studs which didnt come out with the rusted on nuts, they used a second nut as a locking nut.
As to torque, they tightened them as tight as they could, (2 nuts locked to get the stud to the bottom of the hole, then 1 nut with full force on the long bar). No sign of a torque wrench.
No movement of the keel when she was lifted by the crane!!
Tarka1
Well-Known Member
Richard,
don't want to hijack the thread but what condition were the old studs in when they got them out?
don't want to hijack the thread but what condition were the old studs in when they got them out?
Richard10002
Well-Known Member
Fine, apart from the rust. I'm sure they had many years to go before they rusted to the point of real concern, but I had had a survey which said replacing the nuts and backing plates should be done before proceeding to sea, so I got the lot done.
Hope that helps
Richard
30boat
N/A
Just curiosity,did you use to have water in the bilges?
Richard10002
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Just curiosity,did you use to have water in the bilges?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes,
A seemingly common problem with Moodys, for a variety of reasons.
Just curiosity,did you use to have water in the bilges?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes,
A seemingly common problem with Moodys, for a variety of reasons.
Heckler
Well-Known Member
Richard, ref my other posts about them, this is what I expected to see, same as on stingo. Rusty nuts and heads of bolts mean nowt, even the waisted section above the nut didnt matter, the strength comes from the threads inside the nuts and if you take the nuts off you will see that the threads are ok.
Prob with surveyors is that all they do is cover their arses and boatyards frighten peeps!
Stu
Prob with surveyors is that all they do is cover their arses and boatyards frighten peeps!
Stu
