from sail to trawler

[Carsten64]

Good morning, i am Carsten from Germany, livelong sailor and boat owner but now i need some advive to focus or sort out some ideas. I sail a nice 44 ft aluminium boat with mid cockpit an a solid doghous, similar to a Amel. Its 4o years old, no teak and a 2 cyl Sabb engine with 28 hp. I sailed from the baltic to the Med, lifed 2 years on board an the last 10 years we spent 7 months in the greece islands. So far so good....now we have the funds to move ahead. I dont want to go bigger with sail because already now 100 sqm handling with 2 in Meltemi 40 kn is critical if something unforseen happens. Add i hate to look at windy to find the right wind to sail the next 50 nm and allways the wind is increasing to 35 kn instead of 15-20 or sleeping. Actually i prefer to travel with calm condition and spent weeks at anchor an go wingfoiling or paddling etc. so a Trawler is the next one , but which one / size/ engine etc.
I can spent 1 mio eur and will kept the boat for ever
I visited a dashew fpb 64 ( 2 mio and not for the Med), a Nordhavn 47 ( too tall), a selene 54 ( nice) and looking at some dutch steel boats. Before i bought my aluminium boat i had some nogos : no steel, no teak, no turbo and electronic engine, no queensize island bed better a two real tweind or a kingsize. All this was managed and for us a very good decision.

But now with trawler my head is circling: dutch steel often with teak but often nicely shipy built with good plumbing ie rigid piping instead of hoses, diesel furnace, double windows but 90% are design for inland use with many coffetables and round sofas, small galley and storage etc and the good ones are often 40 year old too. There are sometimes older moonen, lowland or even a feadship available with a refit but still they are steel and mostly teak...

Nordhavn 57 / 62 are often without RCD cert and due to the engines difficult to import, the 62 has too many staterooms and the ER is cramped. Although the hull etc is good i dont think their electric and plumbing is not as good as their marketing. its like boating but not ship or yacht standard. very simple shaft system without thrust bearings, simple stuffing box , all plumbing done with hoses, only a few with diesel furnace, allways very small beds queen island everywhere and they try to keep prices very high

Selene , seems interesting, lower profile, often twin engines in europe, CE rated, with twins quite narrow engine room, the 54 or 59 looks good. maybe some cosmetic issues . not sure about built quaöity in 2005 to 2010

Fleming 55, like the pilothouse, dont like the too big engines , but installation much better than NH or selene with seatorq etc. nice low cg . I like to do maintenace myself but i am afraid of such engines, would like some smaller easier to work on ( a fleming with a gardner.... )

we like to travel and life 7 month on board and stay at anchor 95 % of time. last year we had 4 days in the marina and the rest at anchor in greece. cruising grounds we like to expand and travel again up to the baltic and arround UK , Norway and maybe iceland. I still dont want to exclude a transatlantic trip so tankage should be well ahead 2000 nm.

as all boat we are looking at will be approx 10 to 20 years old a lot can go wrong. Additionaly the marina berting at Atlantic, UK , baltic can be tricky but i do not think a trawler smaller 50 is realy seaworthy if compared with my sailing boat, and i know that shit happens even with all the forecast. i def do not want to reduce the safety i feel now on my boat.

Long story but i assume here a sailors who did the same move with all the pros and cons and can add their experience. Carsten

 

[Greg2]

I suspect that there may not be too many who have done precisely what you plan to do but I stand to be corrected.

What struck me was that there are a lot of preferences expressed (nothing wrong with that) but the chances of achieving them all in one boat might be slim. There is a saying in the U.K. that ‘every boat is a compromise’ and whilst that might be a generalisation it does have some merit.

Having previously considered steel we decided against it, primarily because it doesn’t mix well with salt water, even with the benefit of modern paint systems.

Of those that you have considered the Fleming would be top of my list due to it being able to do what you want to do very well. If the only concern is the size of the engines I would say don’t be concerned. Perhaps an over-simplification but an engine is an engine and routine servicing (oil, filter and belt changes) are well within DIY capabilities. Other, more complicated stuff, can usually be planned and worked in with your itinerary to enable an engineer to do it.

If in doubt about the capability of a Fleming watch Tony Fleming’s videos on YouTube (if you haven’t already). He has covered many miles and spent a lot of time ‘off-grid’ aboard his Flemings.

Just my tuppence worth but what a great position to be in - good luck with your search
.

 

[Carsten64]

Hi yes you are right after so many years sailing some preferences building up and i know that they will not fit all in one....my last boat i found at a small advertising in a local port without any preplanning.....Fleming is nice but but why to carry so many HP and never use them. Friend has a steel doggersbank with 2 x 240 hp and using less the 2 x 100 hp when cruising, even across atlantic. I onla know the big engines are not so happy when idling every day but maybe with modern engines this might be different

 

[mainshiptom]

I Own a Mainship 350 American built boat with a single engine, not what I wanted but a big compromise but I have to say that the boat has never let me down,
I have owned the boat from 2018 purchasing in holland and making my way back single handed.

I wanted a twin engine Generator two double cabins a fly bridge all electric no gas electric fresh water toilet the list goes on.

I found this boat and it had a single 300 hp Caterpillar which I did not want but had to compromise after lots of tests and sea trials i found the engine very reliable.
The boat had Gas cooking and a electric sea water toilet, I upgraded both of those, I am very pleased with a trawler boat and it behaves really well in rough seas mainly the English channel

I love the sea and being on anchor any where but my wife prefers river or canals or even lakes , two years ago we did a big loop of Belgium and Holland for 6 weeks it was a delight to live on board.

Last year we lived on the boat in St Kats which was a dream come true for me.

If I had the option to upgrade and love the sea I would go for the Flemings although I love any trawler boat, for me the big advantage of a trawler is the side door and safe walk around which allows me easily to travel single handed very happily

 

[Fire99]

I went from Sail to Motor but admittedly my sailing boat was nothing like as grand as your experiences, and A Fleming and the larger Nordhavn are outside of my budget too.
However, I run a large enough Trader so understand the 'trawler' layout, and the switch from sail to power. I also know the boats you mention fairly well.

Two points from me.
1. Of the trawlers, the Fleming is my pick. They're not perfect but they are very well thought out and can do pretty much anything (other than fly along over 20kts). The quality is excellent and servicing etc isn't too problematic. You're unlikely to lose money on one either if you buy keenly.

2. The biggest issue for me is the experience of switching from sail to power. For me they are two different worlds. When they say that sailing is about the journey and Mobo's are about the destination, it's true. My Trader has buckets of space and for me is amazing at anchor or in port, but it's pretty devoid of involvement during the trip, other than mooring, which is my favourite part. If you want engaging journeys, stick to sail but other than that, and the fuel cost if you do long journeys, a trawler mobo is a great place to spend time safely and comfortably, and to for me the Fleming is the pick.

 

[Greg2]

Hi yes you are right after so many years sailing some preferences building up and i know that they will not fit all in one....my last boat i found at a small advertising in a local port without any preplanning.....Fleming is nice but but why to carry so many HP and never use them. Friend has a steel doggersbank with 2 x 240 hp and using less the 2 x 100 hp when cruising, even across atlantic. I onla know the big engines are not so happy when idling every day but maybe with modern engines this might be different

The thing is that Flemings are semi-displacement boats and designed to run at a variety of speeds. They install those engines knowing only too well well how they are likely to used, which is cruising around 8-10 knots most of the time but with sufficient power to get a wriggle on if necessary. Lots of Fleming owners doing just that and Tony Fleming is on his second boat that he has been cruising extensively as a test bed to inform development of their boats.

As for larger engines running at lower revs it is a topic that pops up on here every now and then and each time people express the same concerns about suitability and say that bore glazing is a problem, but without being able to cite a real world example of it happening. And each time others cite multiple examples of boats with large engines chugging slowly on inland waterways for many years with no issues.

My take, based on owning six motor boats and running inland and at sea, is that whilst larger engines may well have unused HP a lot of the time they are absolutely fine and being able to cruise above displacement speed but less than planing speed is a great compromise between fuel burn/cost and shortening passage times with the bonus of being able to get a wriggle on and make a weather window when required. Our current boat is a 36 foot trawler style with twin 265hp engines and does just that quite happily.

Worth saying that in your case you would be at sea much of the time so the engines won’t be idling but will use a few extra revs.

Not trying to convince you one way or the other but offering an alternative perspective that might help inform your decision
.

 

[Carsten64]

thanks, yes esp many boaters in the Med telling me sometimes its nice to use a calm day and make miles that why so many fast boats are in the Med and with some bad weather and strong tides arround UK or Biscay some extra will be nice, but its a different world when using a 28 hp engine and 6,5 kn.....i like sailing but on a smal boat like my nordic folkboat on big boats its nice with 15-20 on a beam but how often will it be. now we prefer to abchor and take watertoys like wingfoil to sail . As i did not use my sailboat to cross to the carib i am not sure if i will do it in a big trawler where a big slow single diesel might be helpfull.....if i make a decission the choices getting much bigger

 

[Greg2]

We too like to sail and have seriously considered a yacht each time we have changed boats but ended up sticking with motorboats because we like to go inland as well (so masts are an inconvenience) and we concluded that sailing is better for fun and motorboats for going places.

 

[dunedin]

We too like to sail and have seriously considered a yacht each time we have changed boats but ended up sticking with motorboats because we like to go inland as well (so masts are an inconvenience) and we concluded that sailing is better for fun and motorboats for going places.

That was all so logical till the last part. Generally it seems that sailing yachts are generally the ones that travel the big distances - even if more slowly.

 

[Greg2]

That was all so logical till the last part. Generally it seems that sailing yachts are generally the ones that travel the big distances - even if more slowly.

Well that is absolutely true!

I guess we considered it from our perspective i.e. Channel/N. Sea crossings and coastal with day trips being the preference so an adverse tide or wind directly on the nose has little or no impact upon plans.
.

 

[piratos]

Moin Carsten,
I have been onbord a Norhaven (57) although not the newest line, I have been on a Flemming 55 and on a Selene 53 as well as 47. They are all fine boats, but still I always wanted the Selene. Unfortunately it was too expensive for me and I ended up buying what I could afford...

The members in this forum are mostly tending to speed -e.i. planning boats, with a few Semidisplacement. If you look at a Trawlerforum the result will be different. I did 2200 hrs with my last boat and that was a SD, before that I had only "full" planning boats, so I do have some experience with both types.

The point is however that when you want to cruise with speeds of ard 8 knots none of them are perfect, so a full displacement hull is the best - they have deeper keel, and most important bigger rudder that suits the slower speed better. The SD is better with displacement speeds than the full planning hull, but most of the time you would have to cruise at around max hull speed, which means for this size ard 10 knots but the Full displacement hull will be OK with 8 knots (which you mentioned). (8 nots will be less fuel consuming that 10 knots )

Personally I prefer twin engines, but comming from a sailboat I beleive a Single Engine Trawler would be also OK (I take it for granted that both the nordhaven and the Selene will have some kind of "getyouhome" setup as well as stabs).

Of the three options you mentioned I would say it comes down to personal choice.

 

[Carsten64]

morning and thks, thats my feeling too. the selene i like best from the three, not as tall, not as expensive and yes most selenes have twins or a single plus gethome. i have nothing against twins only sometimes its need boat yoga to reach the outside of the engines and at selene the tankvolume is less with twin engines. mostly the have commins bta engines which seems to be ok, not a mechanical natural engine anymore.......

 

[Alicatt]

A friend has a very nice 50ft trawler, single engine, bow and stern thrusters, He has been up as far as Norway on her and down to the med through the canals, here you can see her with all the superstucture folded down to get under the 4m bridge, not the one in the pic but the one about 1km further down that canal branch. he can get the boat down to 3..5m when he takes off the radar dome. The boat has a flybridge too. Here they are heading off to Antwerp, and we are going in the opposite direction to Bocholt.



And our 37ft twin engined Semi Displacement Ocean 37, again with our radar arch folded down to get under the 4m bridge, it's close with the tent still up and the bridge operator has to make sure he raises the bridge to the maximum to get us under, tent down and she is about 3.5m, then the windows fold and the air draught comes down to 2.5m, At idle in gear she does 7.6km/h on one engine and 8.3km/h with both engines she cruises handily at 1100-1200rpm and 15km/h or about 8knots