French owner Westerly

[Twister_Ken]

There was a bit of a tradition that Benny and Jenny (were they separate companies at that point?) would take successul racing boats and turn them into series production cruisers. And quite tasty they were too. But in the last decade or so they seem to have been designing for accomodation, not handling/speed. Honourable exception, the Benny xx.7 boats.

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[Robin]

Depends on how you define a classic:-

No she is not built in wood
No she is not ultra heavy
No she doesn't leak, hull or deck or windows or vents
No she doesn't have a long keel
No she is not narrow with a railway carriage layout
No she doesn't have lots of brass & varnish
No she is not dark down below
No she doesn't smell musty
No she doesn't need a block & tackle on the tiller


Yes she is laid up in GRP reinforced with Kevlar
Yes she came from a designer with pedigree (cruising and racing)
Yes she has a planned production line systems layout, wiring, plumbing all documented/accessible (not done as you go) that works
Yes she has a proper 'traditional' layout inc proper sea berths, but very comfy ones
Yes she has a full size chart table
Yes she has a proper galley, usable at sea
Yes we have a large fridge and can run it all the time
Yes she has plenty of ventilation for hot climes
Yes she can have a cutter rig (detachable, with proper runners) non std though
Yes she can go upwind in a full gale under sail
Yes we have roller genoa cars, rigid kicker, roller traveller cars
Yes she can motor into wind/sea (44HP 4 cyl Yanmar, Brunton prop)
Yes we can go astern under power and turn either way
Yes she will steer herself under sail
Yes the (very large 'poser' wheel) is as light as a feather
Yes the cockpit is very comfy at all angles of heel (and in harbour)
Yes she is very fast, try 7kts at 28 degs apparent, 8.5/9kts free wind
Yes we can do all reefing main (slab) and genoa from cockpit
Yes we have proper BIG self tailing winches


I could go on but you probably fell asleep some while back, and yes I know you dangled the hook but this is for the other idiots who just spout the party line.


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[Robin]

Yes, I'm not sure when they joined company either. But boats like the Jeanneau Melody, Dufour Arpege, Waquiez Centurions, Beneteau's First 38, First 375, First 345, First 32, Jeanneau Sun Fizz, Sun Legende, The Tony Castro 36/38 (name escapes me) are all good from the 70's through to early 90's.

I agree the more recent offerings seem to have gone more caravanny less saily but that is true all over, sadly that is what sells but it also reflects the inescapable fact that 90% of time is spent in harbour and upright.

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[tcm]

Re: Boats of the year

well the XM is okay. Though no as mad fun as a CX.

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[Sybarite]

Jeanneau was merged into Bénéteau in 1995 though they may well have been acquired earlier when the Jeanneau LMBO didn't work out.

The thing about Beneteau is that they are large enough to have ranges including fast boats (Firsts) and cruisers (Oceanis). Often the Oceanis has the same basic hull but with different rig and keel configurations.

As I have indicated before, pleasure boating is a relatively recent activity for Bénéteau. They have been making roughty toughty fishing boats for over a century. So they know a thing or two about making boats. They also have the ability to make boating accessible to a much larger number of people. How many can afford a Bowman?

Personally though I wouldn't choose to own a new one, basically for design reasons. They all look similar. I have however chartered them and they are a delight to sail (with the exception of an Oceanis 320 which was a tub).

I particularly like the Sun Legende (and also the Sun Fizz - sails beautifully) . Either would be my choice if I were looking for a second-hand forty footer.

John

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[Aja]

Re: Boats of the year

Now. Where does that put me? Jeanneau and Focus.
Obviously no taste.

Should obviously have made a better choice. Westerly Pembroke and Morris Traveller?



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[Robin]

We occasionally sail with friends who have a Sun Fizz and are quicker than them. The Bowman 40 was a dream for ages, but a) it is very expensive and b) by modern standards not very roomy below. I'm not a fan of the curved window Bens, but the Swan did one like that, the modern Firsts like 40.7 etc look OK though I haven't sailed them. By the way like you I read Voiles & the other mags when in France, they are really quite good, when you think about it the French are so crazy about sailing that the boats and the mags should be OK. Bavaria though seems like a long way from the sea to me so not sure about them at all.

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[Jacket]

Re: Boats of the year

XM would be a wonderful car (I've got one) if only:

i) The hydraulics didn't leak no matter what you do.

ii) It didn't use non-standard tyres that cost twice as much as normal ones, and only last half as long.

iii) They had handbrakes. I used to live on the side of a mountain. The difficulty of doing hill starts on steep slopes without a handbrake led to a few interesting situations (I'll even admit to once giving up on a very sttep slope, and in the end rolling backwards down to the bottom of the hill!).

However, the ability to drive over speed bumps at 60 more than makes up for all these problems. That and the back seats large enough to sleep on whenever I get thrown out by a girlfriend (which happens fairly often. Apparently because I love my boat more than them).

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[tcm]

Re: Boats of the year

a no-handbrake car eh? mercs do this, but only on automatics. I did have a go in an XM but not quite weird enuf. Do get a test drive of an old CX if u can, excellent laugh. The brakes are fully powered, and the steering wheel is self-centreing. The estate is massive, plenty of space for kipping. The GTI Turbo is the one to go for. LJK said that at the time it was the best handling car this side of a lotus esprit.

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[ccscott49]

Wow, I've never had one as big as this on the line, gonna take some landing! Where's me net?

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[Robin]

Like I said, not written just for you, treat it like a BC. So much crap around sometimes about traditional versus modern, there were crap boats built in all eras and good ones too. Trick is to pick a rose from amonst the weeds and pay a weedy price.

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[Mirelle]

Re: Boats of the year

Peugeot 205 (11 years old) and 37ft gaff cutter (66 years old)

Maybe I should stay out of this?

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[Sybarite]

Re: Boats of the year

Thank you Ken for this list of cars. This perhaps illustrates my point.

How many English cars in this list ? (Fords are probably German ..! )

As for boats, the European car manufacturers build cars which people want. Not everybody is going to drive a Rolls or a Jag. If I take Renault and Peugeot they were upping their production runs over the last year.

You also should look at the types of cars which win the reliability awards eg the small Japanese. So mass production is not necessarily synonomous with poor quality.

As for Beneteau you don't become the largest in the world by selling rubbish. This said again, if money were no object, then I could perhaps indulge my style fantasies and become more exclusive eg a big Twister like a Rustler 36..



John


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[Twister_Ken]

Re: Boats of the year

Cars of the year - the expression "lowest common denominator" occurs - the car that all of the judges find innoffensive. It would be interesting to know how many of the judges in a particular year put the Car of the Year at the top of their list.

On the question of Benjenbav sales it would be interesting to know what proportin are sold to the charter biz.

It used to be that car manufacturers competed fiercely for sales to British School of Motoring, because those who learned to drive in, say, a BSM Astra would then buy one when they'd passed the test. I wonder if the same applies in boats? Mum, Dad and the 2.4 who spent a brilliant fortnight sunsailing around Greece come home and say "Let's get a boat like that".

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