Forum Rules - Definition of a MAB & AWB

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Sailfree

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Boats have developed over the years to reflect what the market wants. I state what the market wants as by implication it means those that are actually prepared to part with a substantial amount of money not those that pontificate but never buy!

It appears to me that many justify their ownership of an old boat by mentioning various "qualities" while the reality is that few if any could buy a modern new boat.

Now having wound (interesting word as it implies to wind up or alternative to hurt!!) a few up lets get down to the gritty details.

Can we define on here what is a MAB and what is a AWB. Obviously over the years what was originally an AWB is now some 35yrs later a MAB!

There are exceptions I don't think a new Rustler is a AWB yet its certainly not a MAB.

I think most wooden yachts are better excluded and clasified as "Classics".

Leaving the exceptions out of it (eg Spirt & Rustler Yachts) who is brave enought to define, or give a generalisation of a MAB - is it age alone?

I will start the ball rolling with my attempt a defining a AWB. Short Fin keel, spade rudder, AVS <130deg, Ballast ratio less than 35%, Stability curve improved by "Form Buoyancy". Flatish u/s to bow section and tends to slam when beating. Wide beam and gererally wider stern with rear cabins. Roomy interior and cockpit. Anyone care to improve on that, can anyone suggest an age limit eg newer than 1995?

Thread not intended to start a row but more define what peoples perceptions are what many are rowing about!!
 
Sailfree said:
Leaving the exceptions out of it (eg Spirt & Rustler Yachts) who is brave enought to define, or give a generalisation of a MAB - is it age alone?

I will start the ball rolling with my attempt a defining a AWB. Short Fin keel, spade rudder, AVS <130deg, Ballast ratio less than 35%, Stability curve improved by "Form Buoyancy". Flatish u/s to bow section and tends to slam when beating. Wide beam and gererally wider stern with rear cabins. Roomy interior and cockpit. Anyone care to improve on that, can anyone suggest an age limit eg newer than 1995?
Click to expand...

Ok, my GK24 built in 79 has a short fine keel, spade rudder, flat u/s to bow sections, very wide and teardrop shaped. Fast in light winds and can slam in heavier and round up if overpressed. So all like a modern AWB in miniature. But it's an MAB by any definition.

I would say, a boat with a wheel that's under 35 feet, more than one heads, with multiple ceiling lights, basically one that is as comfortable in harbour as possible. But there will be exceptions to every rule that are still immediately identifiable as one or the other. Perhaps the definition should just be "well used".
 
I've answered this one before:

Phoenix of Hamble said:
prv said:
Average White Boat - just another identical white plastic lozenge with navy blue stackpack and roller genoa. Looks shiny at first, but turns out to be flimsy and not cope well with bad weather. Interior looks like the show home for a loft-living development, but as soon as the wind picks up you fall across the acres of laminate flooring and smash the chipboard galley lockers.

The alternative is a Manky Auld Boat - thirty years old, heavy, built strictly for sailing with onboard life an afterthought. Can look nice from the outside, but the inside is a damp hole complete with decades of questionable DIY modifications and a stink of spilled diesel and mildew that will cause instant seasickness even at its drying mooring (this boat probably doesn't do marinas). The galley is well suited to heating up tins of stew during a three-day gale, but there's no door to the toilet.

Both terms are stereotypes, with some bits based on a grain of truth and others merely prejudice. Don't take either too seriously :-)

Pete
Click to expand...

That's about as good a summary of the truth as i've seen on here.....!
Click to expand...

:)

Pete
 
AWB = Average White Boat = run of the mill production boat, which does not necessarily mean all those design characteristics you list.

It means mass produced for a mass market, designed for efficient low-cost construction and to be suitable for average pattern of use of the average sailor.

And none of this is pejorative, on the contrary -- how many of us would drive hand-built cars even if we could afford them? Mass production is efficient, so it means getting more, maybe much more for your money. It also makes it possible to invest relatively much in R&D, since this cost can be amortized over a greater number of units produced.

A big factor in cost is mass -- the sheer quantity of materials required -- so AWB's tend to be light or very light for their size. This is a big plus for performance, a minus for seaworthiness and motion comfort. But since the great majority of sailors use their boats for coastal cruising & weekend sailing, motion comfort and the n-th degree of seaworthiness are not really that much needed -- such sailors will generally not get caught out in really bad weather. Good performance makes for more fun sailing.

Most AWBs do have flattish hull sections -- this reduces mass and therefore cost, and at the same time reduces wetted surface, increasing performance. They all have fin keels -- not necessarily short ones. They all or nearly all have spade rudders these days -- again, a coincidence of lower cost and better performance.

They do not all have beam carried well aft, high freeboard, large interior spaces aft, but that is a trend.

Many AWB's have quite good stability numbers; there is no rule there. Light displacement with a deep fin keel, characteristic of some AWB's, is positive for stability.

Maximizing interior volume in a given LOA is also a trend, positive from point of view of comfort when not underway, however unlike over AWB qualities, negative from point of view of performance. Possibly negative from point of view of comfort underway. But one has a choice -- not all AWB's are like that.
 
My Albin Vega 27 is certainly an Auld Boat (pre-1975 I think).

She also did smell of diesel when bought - eventually I tracked down a drip in the fuel return pipe.

Lots of hot water, detergent and fabric conditioner have eliminated the smell so that even my wife admits she can't smell it any more.

Not Manky any more (dehum running as she sits on her nice sheltered marina berth).

MAB == My Auld Boat..
 
Surely the type of owner should be added to the boat characteristics when defining AWB or MAB? Or should we be separating ourselves into KYTs and COBs?




















Keen Young Things
Cynical Old Barstewards
 
I'll have a go ... my definitions would be as follows:

AWB, Average White Boat.
Any yacht built in the last 15 years by the volume manufacturers and used in large numbers by charter companies.

AAWB, Above Average White Boat.
Any yacht built in the last 15 years but whose second hand value would still be twice the price of an equivalent sized AWB.

MAB, Manky Auld Boat.
Any yacht that needs to undergo a major re-fit or where the interior needs air freshener to block out the combined smell of diesel, mildew and the marine toilet.

MAB Middle Aged Boat.
Any boat in good condition but built between 15 and 40 years ago and cheaper than a recent AWB of equivalent length.

QMAB Quality Middle Aged Boat.
Any boat in good condition but built between 15 and 40 years ago and the same value (or more) of a recent AWB of equivalent length.

Classic Boat: Any boat made of wood
 
Last edited:
Baggywrinkle said:
I'll have a go ... my definitions would be as follows:

AWB, Average White Boat.
Any yacht built in the last 15 years by the volume manufacturers and used in large numbers by charter companies.

AAWB, Above Average White Boat.
Any yacht built in the last 15 years but whose second hand value would still be twice the price of an equivalent sized AWB.

MAB, Manky Auld Boat.
Any yacht that needs to undergo a major re-fit or where the interior needs air freshener to block out the combined smell of diesel, mildew and the marine toilet.

MAB Middle Aged Boat.
Any boat in good condition but built between 15 and 40 years ago and cheaper than a recent AWB of equivalent length.

QMAB Quality Middle Aged Boat.
Any boat in good condition but built between 15 and 40 years ago and the same value as a recent AWB of equivalent length.

Classic Boat: Any boat made of wood
Click to expand...

So what would my 1969 boat be then, being over 40 years, made of GRP and having no particular smell about it? It's even got a nice clean soft foam backed vinyl lining these days and a brand new navy stack pack :)
 
lustyd said:
So what would my 1969 boat be then, being over 40 years, made of GRP and having no particular smell about it? It's even got a nice clean soft foam backed vinyl lining these days and a brand new navy stack pack :)
Click to expand...

Unique ..... :D, although I'd sneak it in as a Middle Aged Boat. Ladies shouldn't have to reveal their age.
 
Baggywrinkle said:
AWB, Average White Boat.
Any yacht built in the last 15 years by the volume manufacturers and used in large numbers by charter companies.

AAWB, Above Average White Boat.
Any yacht built in the last 15 years but whose second hand value would still be twice the price of an equivalent sized AWB.

MAB, Manky Auld Boat.
Any yacht that needs to undergo a major re-fit or where the interior needs air freshener to block out the combined smell of diesel, mildew and the marine toilet.

MAB Middle Aged Boat.
Any boat in good condition but built between 15 and 40 years ago and cheaper than a recent AWB of equivalent length.

QMAB Quality Middle Aged Boat.
Any boat in good condition but built between 15 and 40 years ago and the same value (or more) of a recent AWB of equivalent length.

Classic Boat: Any boat made of wood
Click to expand...

Excellent Mr Baggy.

May I add a further category since my own objet d'amour fits none of your otherwise well considered categories:

ABB Average Beige Boat

Althought I like to think of her as an AABB, or A2B2, or ABBA if you must :rolleyes:
 
What's the point?

2 perfectly easily grasped, understood, widely used & remembered classifications that cover a multitude of variations (as described by PRV) have suddenly deteriorated into a score of hardly differentiated & confusing lists.


Give me strength. This is so typical of modern "simplifications" take something that works perfectly well & screw it up completely. Well done OP, brilliant improvement - NOT!
 
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