KellysEye
Well-Known Member
The wave height in a force 10 is 9 to 12.5m the waves look nothng like that.
Force 10 forecast - lets go sailing!
- Thread starter GHA
- Start date
Joker
Well-Known Member
It's not the swell/waves that kill you; it's the wave/swell with a breaking crest.
NotBirdseye
Well-Known Member
That may depend entirely on the speed and direction of the current and in that area I'm pretty sure he chose to run on a west to east (westerly?) current. The wind forecast went into the same direction, this may ameliorate the height of the waves creating the smoother seas seen. (As well as the obligatory camera making everything look flatter...)
mainsail1
Well-Known Member
Certainly not a force 10 in my experience. I think he got carried away by a few big gusts.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
It certainly helps make the case for continuing to sail downwind, rather than heave to or slow down, IF got lots of searoom (or able to get into sheltered water before approaching harbour, as in this case).
But I am still amazed that in a full Force 10 one could sail with hatches wide open and no need for lifelines. Cross waves tend to break into the cockpit, and/or the nose diving into the back of a wave sending solid water back. Particularly if the boat is a submarine type as some have suggested.
Plus I would have imagined that in F10 you would be sailing fast under bare poles (people often start to consider ropes to slow down in these conditions, which had mixed results to say the least in GGR), rather than part reefed genoa.
Certainly a fun ride by an experienced sailor, but doesn’t feel like a representative full Force 10.
Kukri
Well-Known Member
Don’t know about F10.
At 12.40 today my crew and I stepped off a Nic 55 in Woolverstone aboard which we had sailed from the Hamble at 0800 yesterday.
At all times before during and after our trip the weather forecast was for Beaufort F7, F8 and F9.
There were no wrecks, and nobody drownded, and nothing to laff at at all...
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dunedin
Well-Known Member
Glad you enjoyed your sail. And am sure you would agree there is a huge difference between a forecast of F7-8 potentially F9 at times (which many/most of us have experienced grabbing the window to scuttle downwind to better shelter) versus being in an actual sustained F10 - which does happen but is usually a severe batten down the hatches event.
RobbieW
Well-Known Member
Did Albert survive ?
greggron
Well-Known Member
Lots of filming. Filmed the wind speed on the way out, but not on the way back. If I’d been sailing in a F10 and was filming, a shot of the wind instrument would be infinite bragging rights.
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
I wasn't convinced it was a Force 10 (though more than enough for me).
Before he set off he said, IIRC, that the island's met station was showing 45kts gusting 55kts. That's F9, not 10, and the station appeared to be at the top of a hill, where wind speed would be higher due to (a) elevation and (b) accelerating over the hill.
When he was running he said IIRC that the boat was doing 6 1/2 kts, which meant the wind was 40 to 42 kts (presumably added boat speed to apparent wind speed). That would be F8 - F9, even assuming it was steady rather than a gust.
I would not expect to be able to stand up without holding on in a 35' boat in a F10, let alone operate a camera. I certainly wouldn't expect to be able to clearly record speech into a microphone.
For me the most alarming aspect of it was heading towards a lee shore with only limited openings (and those between low lying islets that would be difficult to see if the viz closed in). It wouldn't take much in the way of mechanical problems, or injury following a fall or whatever, to make that lethal.
Before he set off he said, IIRC, that the island's met station was showing 45kts gusting 55kts. That's F9, not 10, and the station appeared to be at the top of a hill, where wind speed would be higher due to (a) elevation and (b) accelerating over the hill.
When he was running he said IIRC that the boat was doing 6 1/2 kts, which meant the wind was 40 to 42 kts (presumably added boat speed to apparent wind speed). That would be F8 - F9, even assuming it was steady rather than a gust.
I would not expect to be able to stand up without holding on in a 35' boat in a F10, let alone operate a camera. I certainly wouldn't expect to be able to clearly record speech into a microphone.
For me the most alarming aspect of it was heading towards a lee shore with only limited openings (and those between low lying islets that would be difficult to see if the viz closed in). It wouldn't take much in the way of mechanical problems, or injury following a fall or whatever, to make that lethal.
Neeves
Well-Known Member
+1
There is nothing to brag about in intentionally sailing in such conditions. On the assumption if something goes wrong and you trigger, or it is done automatically, an emergency alarm.
Someone, often volunteers, then have to come out and sort you out - except they have to venture out to windward (whilst you only planned to sail downwind).
The heroes are the ones who are expected to go out and sort out the mess.
Having sounded righteous - some of us do get caught out and if we don't test the limits of our skill, extend our knowledge and test the seaworthiness of our yachts then we might not 'cut the mustard'. There is a balance.
I am critical of yacht racing where races are cancelled or postponed when forecasts are unfavourable and crew are never subjected to adverse weather - until its too late and they have to learn, possibly at the extreme end of the scale. Taming a main, removing a headsail and hanking on a Storm jib, at 2am, when conditions dictate is slightly different to practising.
Jonathan
Kukri
Well-Known Member
I like Erik’s videos but on this occasion I agree with Little Sister and with Neeves.
Somewhere Uffa Fox wrote that underwriters would be justified in refusing to pay on a yacht that sets off with a gale forecast. That was in the thirties but the words did come back to me as we set off into a forecast «*SW 6 to gale 8, severe gale 9 later*» We were running in a very capable big boat with a strong crew; maximum apparent wind on the anemometer was 42 and we were making 10 knots SOG at that point, running north inside the Goodwins, with a SSW wind,but for most of the time we were seeing mid twenties and 6-7 knots on the log. SOG was higher overall due to carrying the tide.
Somewhere Uffa Fox wrote that underwriters would be justified in refusing to pay on a yacht that sets off with a gale forecast. That was in the thirties but the words did come back to me as we set off into a forecast «*SW 6 to gale 8, severe gale 9 later*» We were running in a very capable big boat with a strong crew; maximum apparent wind on the anemometer was 42 and we were making 10 knots SOG at that point, running north inside the Goodwins, with a SSW wind,but for most of the time we were seeing mid twenties and 6-7 knots on the log. SOG was higher overall due to carrying the tide.
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Wansworth
Well-Known Member
Years agoI recall a harbour master preventing a yacht putting to sea in the face of bad weather,the yachtsman wanted to test their heavy weather stuff.
Kukri
Well-Known Member
Harbour master was right, imho.
There is a case for trying out heavy weather stuff in sheltered water. Years ago the Des Sleightholme YM recommended this and I’ve done it. But presumably that wasn’t the case here.
dom
Well-Known Member
In fact, this a useful tick-list of bad seamanship and how to absolutely not approach such conditions:
I admit to fast-forwarding large tracts of vid, so would hazard a guess there are many more mistakes.
1. Constant exaggeration degrades understanding
2. Derring-do attitude best kept in the pub; the sea will be unimpressed. 15:05 and 15:44 are acts of utter stupidity.
3. No hatches going into possible breaking seas is just silly.
4. Lack of harness, such as when unfurling jib (14:45) is plain stupid. If it accidentally flew out, the boat would have been on its side and a riding turn would render retrieval almost impossible.
5. When close to lee shores an exit strategy is key. And for that one needs the right sails and minimized windage. A pregnant elephant clew section of a furling genny will absolutely not cut the mustard. The windage of the furled headsail will not help and neither will the windage from his badly lashed down main, unused windvane, and all that clobber on the stern rail. In fact, he may never have got off a lee shore as prop cavitation would have surely slowed progress to a crawl or worse.
2. Derring-do attitude best kept in the pub; the sea will be unimpressed. 15:05 and 15:44 are acts of utter stupidity.
3. No hatches going into possible breaking seas is just silly.
4. Lack of harness, such as when unfurling jib (14:45) is plain stupid. If it accidentally flew out, the boat would have been on its side and a riding turn would render retrieval almost impossible.
5. When close to lee shores an exit strategy is key. And for that one needs the right sails and minimized windage. A pregnant elephant clew section of a furling genny will absolutely not cut the mustard. The windage of the furled headsail will not help and neither will the windage from his badly lashed down main, unused windvane, and all that clobber on the stern rail. In fact, he may never have got off a lee shore as prop cavitation would have surely slowed progress to a crawl or worse.
I admit to fast-forwarding large tracts of vid, so would hazard a guess there are many more mistakes.
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Lightwave395
Well-Known Member
A few years ago when my boat was kept in Mayflower Marina, whilst chatting I was told by one of the crew on a visiting Clipper training yacht that as part of the program they go looking for bad weather, out in the Western Approaches ?
Neeves
Well-Known Member
I'm guessing they did not define 'bad weather' or you would have mentioned it.
And to Dom +1 (you had much more patience than me - the whole thing seemed to be part off an ego trip - and I, like the weather, was unimpressed).
We get it wrong but try to avoid bad weather, and limit possible exposure to bad weather to downhill, like the plague. Sailing is meant to be a pleasure not a test of character for others to marvel, or not, at.
Similarly - people who defend their anchors by saying they anchored and weathered a named Storm - I immediately think they are bragging, lack credibility and/or very, very stupid (or combination of).
Jonathan
NotBirdseye
Well-Known Member
It's called NBJS for a reason, it's not a fair weather cocktail party as a lot of other channels seem to be, nor is it a travel brochure (yet, the channel is working on it).
Lets not forget he's an experienced skipper on his own boat. I've not yet met a skipper who follows all the rules and or does everything by the book. They all take their own risks depending on their appetite and experience. I am sure if you had his experiences (not saying he is more experienced than anyone else) that you may make similar decisions.
It's probably no different from Base Jumping, sure it's not meant to be a test of character, it's meant to be a pleasure but for a lot of people...it's a test of character. You might think it's risky, those who've tried it and succeeded might think otherwise.
Lets not forget he's an experienced skipper on his own boat. I've not yet met a skipper who follows all the rules and or does everything by the book. They all take their own risks depending on their appetite and experience. I am sure if you had his experiences (not saying he is more experienced than anyone else) that you may make similar decisions.
It's probably no different from Base Jumping, sure it's not meant to be a test of character, it's meant to be a pleasure but for a lot of people...it's a test of character. You might think it's risky, those who've tried it and succeeded might think otherwise.
GHA
Well-Known Member
And by the looks of it planning a solo trip to Greenland, so getting some more heavy weather experience isn't a bad thing.
[70521]
Well-Known Member
I'd disagree with you. He has undertaken a number of mid winter passages from Norway to Shetland! I'd consider those passages had far more risk.Guy's proper nuts!
Anyone here even consider doing that?
He knew what he was doing and had carefully planned the trip.
Yes, I would consider going out in something like that.
