Foolhardy?

[Grehan]

or Adventurous?

This month's Y.M has a 2-page article by a middle aged chap who took his girlfriend (they seem both to have had some experience, albeit severely limited) and boat (a Jenneau XX, obviously in reasonable nick) from Preston to Falmouth last December.

After an easy start they encountered some fairly arduous conditions. The lady suffered badly from mal-de-mer (no remedies on board?) and seems to have been incapacitated for the entire trip, which left Sir in sole control for about 2 days and nights, I think. They hit bad weather off Wales and debated whether to tuck into Milford to let the weather blow out, but (he?) decided to plug on round Lands End, Lizard, etc.

They made it OK. He said it was An Experience. She said it was the worst X days of her life.

Was this responsible skippering? RYA Yachtmastery?

Personally I would say not, and frankly I don't think I would have had the heart to put my wife through tens of hours of agony (leaving me to cope on my tod) if I could have changed course for somewhere a bit safer/more comfortable. In December. We haven't got huge amounts of experience, but I think we've got more than these two and we always . . hopefully . . . err on the side of caution.

Too wobbly and frit, us? Too easy to rush to judge others? Unfairly?

Whaddya think?

 

[steve_cronin]

A lot of it goes on....

.. without anyone coming to much harm and so it has been since the dawn of popular cruising. It's probably the most common first experience of most who go on to be respected sailors.

Havn't read the article yet so can't comment in detail.

Steve Cronin

 

[nicho]

I agree entirely - the more I read, the more I felt the guy was a fool. However, she was stupid enough to tell him to keep going. Not knowing this part of the world too well, maybe there was nowhere to go ( but what about Pwelli/Aberystwth/Milford Haven?) Perhaps she was not as bad as was made out. (a little embroidery perhaps?)

Whatever, to go through two nights without any sleep is foolhardy at best, and downright dangerous at worst. Does the mag print this sort of thing to teach us all a lesson, or give someone a platform to show off his (so called) sailing abilites?

 

[vyv_cox]

Also have not read the article, but it sounds like yet another example of common sense being over-ruled by time constraints. Whether the original decision to go at this time of year was sensible is another issue. Knowing those waters quite well, I would not have set out on it so short-handed at that time of year. Once past the Welsh coast there is very little and possibly no shelter available until Penzance, almost 24 hours sailing in some strong tidal flows. Can get very rough indeed.

There was a saying that west of the Lizard was no place to be in a small boat once September is out. Nav aids, electronics and other kit may have made sailing more accessible but the sea doesn't change.

Doesn't sound very responsible to me.

 

[wayneA]

IMHO very foolhardy.

The primary concern for a skipper is the safety of the vessel and the well being of the crew. I felt the skipper in question failed on both counts. Even if a crew member says they are OK and fit for the job, IMO the skipper's responsibility is to decide 'how' capable they are under the conditions - Maybe his wife said she was ok, so not to disappoint or upset her husband?

Sailing for 2 days with very little rest and an incapacitated crew member, I feel, put the boat in a risky situation.

Wayne

 

[Peter_H]

In my opinion, even considering a two and a half day passage with only myself and a relatively inexperienced crewmember at that time of year is foolhardy

 

[Guest]

Having not read the artical I can't really say but it does seem as though the guy was not making the correct decisions expected of a skipper. I would NEVER ask a sick crew member whether we "should" carry on. I would however (may ask) a sick crew member "were they are fit to carry on" but only after I as skipper had made my decision and that would include whether I thought that in carrying on that the sick crew could infact stand it, because there are a number of people out there, that when they get sick they also de-hydrate quickly, which is dangerous. I think from the posts above and descriptions given, I would have activated my "alternative" passage plan and belted for cover. It also makes me wonder whether this guy was making a bold attempt at becoming an RNLI statistic.

 

[jimi]

Agree completely, that was my reaction when I read the article. The chap also said it was the best sailing he ever had ...

Jim

 

[Guest]

Jimi, you'd be surprised at the number of people that have just made a very hairy passage and scared themselves (and everyone else on the boat) to death come up and say "that was a great sail". They normally say this after the've tied up had a large one and changed their trousers.Unfortunately I'm not sure how many of them learn from the experience?

 

[Guest]

Mistakes can happen ..

Ok - I think the guy - if the story runs exactly as told ... is wrong to have exposed himself and dearest to such an ordeal.
But I also remember an incident that affected me ..... I sold my Snap 23 in Langstone Hbr to a young guy who pressed me to sell. No prob's ..... fair price, he's happy, I'm happy.

He then asks me to assist with delivery to Brighton ..... me-thinks ... now thats a good one, short and sweet and not a trip I've done before. He advises that he will bring along an experienced dinghy racing guy who knows all about sailing etc. etc.

So couple of weeks later the telcal ... moorings ready in Brighton Marina and we should go as soon as possible.

I go to Club and wait for the guys ..... he arrives with 'some bad weather' gear ... bit limited, but Ok its only 12 hours etc. His mate has similar. Where's fuel / water etc. I ask .... dunno - thought you were going to supply ???? So of to the petrol station ... fill up as many cans as possible. Water --- well I had a little left on board and that would be more than enough.

So off we finally go, now about an hour late - meaning possible rough ride round the corner for a while !

We get out from Langstone and the wind dies !! Lobster pots / fish nets / buoys etc. everywhere .... no wind and on with engine. Now I'm starting to think - no prob. we can trickle along with sails and engine just ticking over ..... New owner has retired to the bunk moaning and groaning about feeling ill and forgetting his Mal de Mer tablet .... his pal - I give him the helm and ask that he keep such and such while I try and help his mate ...... after a while I sense a change in boat motion ...... return to cockpit and find us heading off in another direction and he's daydreaming !!! So a grab of tiller, turn her back on course and set sails again.
Its starting to get dark and we have been out for over 10 hours now and only about 1/3rd the way ...... I start thinking maybe we should go into one of the rivers / harbours etc. His mate says - no prob. we can keep going - he will help, new owner wants to get to end of journey as quick as poss. So I plug on .... fuel now running low and I shut off engine to keep emregency and also enough for marina use.
I now try and instruct matey how to helm and look after a compass course etc. ..... well I don't know what dinghy racing he did - but he can't sail !!!! Owners now asleep and thats a big improvement !

26 hrs later ----- sleepy eyed and having great difficulty staying awake .... matey's asleep, owner alseep ..... I see the wall of Brighton Marina in the distance ...... call up HM and he advises that they've been expecting us yesterday !!!!! So get closer and start engine .... up pops new owner fresh as a daisy and wants to helm her into the new berth .... I think my response was diplomatic but well understood after such time .... We got into the marina tied up and I couldn't wait to go home .....

But it was a bloody good sail !!!!!

 

[Metabarca]

Re: Mistakes can happen ..

Phew, what a gripper! But WHAT was your 'diplomatic reply'? Do tell!!

 

[billmacfarlane]

Both .

I've just read the article and it looks like he was a tad headstrong in continuing and equally adventurous in sailing what was effectively single handed. He did ask his partner if she was OK to carry on when she was ill not long after they left , and she said wanted to carry on . That's probably the point he should have made his decision as whether to carry on or not , but as most people do recover from sea sickness , it's a difficult one to call at the time. I personally would have pulled into Milford Haven and waited for better conditions . He talked about the adrenalin rush he was getting because of the bad weather , and IMHO that's the time to stop and think because you're past the point of reason . If I want an adrenalin rush , and I don't , I'd take up bungee jumping. To me sailing's for amongst other things relaxing. Good article though.

 

[Guest]

Selfish

I thoght he was not only foolhardy but selfish to boot. I hope his missus ran up a big credit card bill!

By the way - what does OMHO mean - I seem to see it a lot.

Geoff W

 

[nicho]

Re: Selfish

I thought it was IMHO (in my honest opinion)??

 

[AndrewB]

In My HUMBLE Opinion ...

... as of course all our opinions are.

See the <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/>New Hacker's Dictionary</A>, section 'I'

 

[halcyon]

Re: Selfish

Presumably OMHO is only my honest opinion.

Not sure which I prefer.


Brian

 

[kidnapped]

Re: Selfish

Why not try 'in my HUMBLE opinion'

 

[halcyon]

Re: Selfish

Were does the I appear in OMHO.

Only my humble opinion though


Brian

 

[jimi]

OFF MY HEAD \'ONEST

nm

Jim

 

[Strathglass]

Re: Foolhardy? and dangerous

I read the article before reading the forums. How can someone sail for that length of time without sleep and with a sick crew? This sort of article encourages this sort of action. Should it have been published?
Its one thing in an open oceon sailing single handed, but not on a coastal pasage with other shipping around.
I can think of no better way to put SHMBO off sailing for good.

Iain