Fleming 58 video

[Nautical]

Just logged on after quite a bit of time away and Oh look "trawlers!"

Just from my perspective and I have a dog in the fight of course but nevertheless.

If I were just going Med cruising and don't expect to be too pushed about weather and have time to sit it out if needed and want in and out of the boat say 5 - 10 years then I would forget the whole Trawler thing and just buy something like JFM's Sq 78 , pretty much the perfect med boat and will do absolutely everything you could ever want and even handle a bit of roughty toughty stuff so long as it doesn't end up 20 footers and 50 knots howling off the beam for 24 hours.

If however your looking for..... "well sod it its blowing 6's and 7's but who cares we're off anyway" then a well founded SD LRMY is going to be the better bet which ever way you look at it, you can argue the points of handling quartering and beams seas etc till the cows come home but if your intent is to be regularly sailing for couple days at a time non stop in that sort of stuff the SD heavy brigade is just going hang together a lot better . Its not so much even the design or under water sections that make the difference as we all know a P hull has many advantages in certain conditions, its the sheer weight of construction that counts . Take say an ORY 700 series , fully loaded that's in the region of 70 + tons (and usually with smaller engines ) whereas a Princess or other is around 30 tons lighter (but with heavier engines and trans) . That extra 30 tons which when you think about it is an enormous weight difference for the same LOA and can only come from the weight of construction, lamination schedules, joinery and runners and stringers etc .

When you're getting beaten up hour after hour , day after day , year in year out for 20 years (ok an exaggeration but you get the drift) your P boat is in need of serious attention and the interior is likely fire wood at that stage and sounds like its coming apart at the seams in a big sea.

Then there is all the redundancy built in. How many P boats have not just a second back up fresh water pump but a third as well both in 24 v and 220V. Lose a FW pump and how do you flush the heads or take a shower? , or diaphragm pumps instead of a macerator pumps which a few bits of kitchen roll has knackered your pooper . Back ups to the AC units, secondary pumps for the reverse cycle separately plumbed so if it all goes south with the first you can come back on line with the second and back up units .

Pull fuel from any tank to any tank via any machinery through fuel polishers , back up hydraulic PTO's from the genset to run the winches and stabs if you lose one or both from the main engines .

And on it goes (and so does the price accordingly) .

Other thing to consider is residual values, a 20 year old Nordhavn , Fleming, ORY etc is going to be worth significantly more than a production P boat which was probably near to the same selling price when new but is now worth half of that and in some cases that's even wishful thinking .

Take a swipe at a pontoon with a 70' SD / D heavy weight and you'll probably demolish the toon and sail off thinking I wonder what that bump was , in a P boat its get your cheque book out and book a slot in the travel hoist jobbie.

Horses for courses as they say , P boat with Vector Fins or similar for Med boating and the odd once in a while lumpy stuff and SD / D if you intend on doing regular serious stuff or heading off into the wild blue yonder with no marina support for 1000 nm.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

In other words, they offer little resistance to rolling, but the bright side of it is that it doesn't take a lot of force to contrast their motion. It's rather a matter of calibrating just as much righting force as necessary (i.e., the fins angle), and apply it for as long as the waves require.:

I dont want to start a particular discussion on this but if what you say is right and D boats dont require a lot of force to right them, then why wouldnt a gyro work perfectly well? FWIW there has been a discussion on the Nordhavn Dreamers site on this very issue recently which didnt reach a definitive conclusion but certainly didnt rule out gyros for D boats. I understand jfm's statement but in my limited experience with my boat, the gyro works best when the roll period is longer and slower

 

[Bouba]

I dont want to start a particular discussion on this but if what you say is right and D boats dont require a lot of force to right them, then why wouldnt a gyro work perfectly well? FWIW there has been a discussion on the Nordhavn Dreamers site on this very issue recently which didnt reach a definitive conclusion but certainly didnt rule out gyros for D boats. I understand jfm's statement but in my limited experience with my boat, the gyro works best when the roll period is longer and slower

I remember the guy at the Seakeeper stand at Cannes saying much the same, D boats roll more easily so stopping them rolling is just as easy

 

[jfm]

I dont want to start a particular discussion on this but if what you say is right and D boats dont require a lot of force to right them, then why wouldnt a gyro work perfectly well? FWIW there has been a discussion on the Nordhavn Dreamers site on this very issue recently which didnt reach a definitive conclusion but certainly didnt rule out gyros for D boats. I understand jfm's statement but in my limited experience with my boat, the gyro works best when the roll period is longer and slower

Id still argue "no" Mike. Fins also work better when roll period is longer and slower. Gyros are useless when you want the same antiroll torque for a long time, exactly the conditions mapism describes above in a cork-screwing sea. A gyro stops doing anything after a second or so, and can only come back to life when the boat rolls the other way. That feature is highly unsuitable for big beam seas or quartering seas. It isn't effectively compensated for by the fact that full D hulls require less anti roll torque aotbe than P hulls.

 

[MapisM]

I dont want to start a particular discussion on this but if what you say is right and D boats dont require a lot of force to right them, then why wouldnt a gyro work perfectly well? FWIW there has been a discussion on the Nordhavn Dreamers site on this very issue recently which didnt reach a definitive conclusion but certainly didnt rule out gyros for D boats. I understand jfm's statement but in my limited experience with my boat, the gyro works best when the roll period is longer and slower

I didn't follow the debate you mention, but I think that we are a bit at cross purposes ref. the roll period, which is an inherent characteristic of each hull, and the type of stabilization required, which mostly depends on the waves.
I mean, any hull with longer roll period and lower initial stability is (by definition, so to speak) easier to stabilize, and that is true regardless of the stabilization technology adopted.
Also paravanes work better on a Nordie than on a P boat, for any given size - obviously leaving aside the fact that nobody in his right mind would spec paravanes on a 30+ kts boat, for a whole bunch of completely different (but very good) reasons.

That said, there's nothing that can be done to overcome the inherent limits of gyros under way - particularly at D speed.
Just think of the scenario I mentioned in the last paragraph of post #177, and which I experienced first hand with my old boat in a few occasions: while cruising at 7 or 8 knots in stern quartering seas, whenever a large swell "grabs" a non-stabilized boat, it can make her list (again, I'm purposedly using this term instead of rolling because the actual movement is more akin to the first rather than the latter), potentially forever, if the swell and the boat are moving at the same speed.
In a D boat with properly sized fin stabs, all it takes to contrast this listing is to keep the fins rotated as much as necessary to contrast the wave effect, and for as long as this effect lasts. No big deal.
Now, in the same boat/conditions, but with a gyro rather than fins (mind, obviously in this case I have no first hand experience to report, but I'm rather confident to be correct because it's just a matter of basic physics), it remains true that a gyro would be more effective say on a N60 compared to a F630, but once the gyro reaches the end of its excursion, it's game over in terms of righting force.
Don't ask me whether this will take only 1-1.5 seconds as jfm mentioned, because I simply don't know.
What I know for sure is that in some sea conditions, particularly at D speed, it can be necessary to apply a righting force constantly and in the very same direction for MUCH longer periods.
In fact, it's no coincidence that also your experience so far shows that the gyro is very effective at zero speed, where the typical boat roll is more hectic (so to speak), and highly depending on the hull roll period.
Whenever the rolling movement requires constantly opposite righting forces, a gyro - by constantly moving back and forth - fits the bill just perfectly.

 

[Bouba]

Just logged on after quite a bit of time away and Oh look "trawlers!"

Just from my perspective and I have a dog in the fight of course but nevertheless.

If I were just going Med cruising and don't expect to be too pushed about weather and have time to sit it out if needed and want in and out of the boat say 5 - 10 years then I would forget the whole Trawler thing and just buy something like JFM's Sq 78 , pretty much the perfect med boat and will do absolutely everything you could ever want and even handle a bit of roughty toughty stuff so long as it doesn't end up 20 footers and 50 knots howling off the beam for 24 hours.

If however your looking for..... "well sod it its blowing 6's and 7's but who cares we're off anyway" then a well founded SD LRMY is going to be the better bet which ever way you look at it, you can argue the points of handling quartering and beams seas etc till the cows come home but if your intent is to be regularly sailing for couple days at a time non stop in that sort of stuff the SD heavy brigade is just going hang together a lot better . Its not so much even the design or under water sections that make the difference as we all know a P hull has many advantages in certain conditions, its the sheer weight of construction that counts . Take say an ORY 700 series , fully loaded that's in the region of 70 + tons (and usually with smaller engines ) whereas a Princess or other is around 30 tons lighter (but with heavier engines and trans) . That extra 30 tons which when you think about it is an enormous weight difference for the same LOA and can only come from the weight of construction, lamination schedules, joinery and runners and stringers etc .

When you're getting beaten up hour after hour , day after day , year in year out for 20 years (ok an exaggeration but you get the drift) your P boat is in need of serious attention and the interior is likely fire wood at that stage and sounds like its coming apart at the seams in a big sea.

Then there is all the redundancy built in. How many P boats have not just a second back up fresh water pump but a third as well both in 24 v and 220V. Lose a FW pump and how do you flush the heads or take a shower? , or diaphragm pumps instead of a macerator pumps which a few bits of kitchen roll has knackered your pooper . Back ups to the AC units, secondary pumps for the reverse cycle separately plumbed so if it all goes south with the first you can come back on line with the second and back up units .

Pull fuel from any tank to any tank via any machinery through fuel polishers , back up hydraulic PTO's from the genset to run the winches and stabs if you lose one or both from the main engines .

And on it goes (and so does the price accordingly) .

Other thing to consider is residual values, a 20 year old Nordhavn , Fleming, ORY etc is going to be worth significantly more than a production P boat which was probably near to the same selling price when new but is now worth half of that and in some cases that's even wishful thinking .

Take a swipe at a pontoon with a 70' SD / D heavy weight and you'll probably demolish the toon and sail off thinking I wonder what that bump was , in a P boat its get your cheque book out and book a slot in the travel hoist jobbie.

Horses for courses as they say , P boat with Vector Fins or similar for Med boating and the odd once in a while lumpy stuff and SD / D if you intend on doing regular serious stuff or heading off into the wild blue yonder with no marina support for 1000 nm.

I agree with everything you say, if conditions were bad I’d rather be in a fifty foot Nordhavn than a fifty foot planing boat. But if for the same money I could be on a seventy foot planing boat then I’m not so sure, the extra beam and length could make up for the Nordhavn’s strength

 

[MapisM]

Other thing to consider is residual values, a 20 year old Nordhavn , Fleming, ORY etc is going to be worth significantly more than a production P boat which was probably near to the same selling price when new but is now worth half of that and in some cases that's even wishful thinking.

Hi T, I haven't read any posts from yourself for a while, I hope all is well at your end.

Just one comment on your sentence above: I'm not sure that the logical conclusion of what you are saying is that Nordies etc. are objectively "worth" more than P boats. Price of everything and value of nothing springs to mind.
If for any given size I can buy some of the best P boats for less than half of what I should fork out for a half decent SD boat, that's simply due to a market distortion rather than a real difference in VFM, surely?

Ref. boaters who are interested in the "sod it its blowing 6's and 7's but who cares we're off anyway" approach, well, I'm not saying that there aren't any, but I for one have yet to meet them.
I mean, as you know I made a 3 full days winter passage with an ORY 70' some years ago, and we did find some rough stuff along the route - also at night.
Would I have been equally happy to do that with a P boat? 'Course not.
But, was that my idea (or also the idea of anyone else onboard, mind!) of boating for pleasure? No way.
There's a difference between enduring a cruise and enjoying it... :ambivalence:

 

[MapisM]

I agree with everything you say, if conditions were bad I’d rather be in a fifty foot Nordhavn than a fifty foot planing boat. But if for the same money I could be on a seventy foot planing boat then I’m not so sure, the extra beam and length could make up for the Nordhavn’s strength

Good point, but fwiw your "for the same money" assumption actually leads to much more extreme differences, in today's market.
In my recent boat search, I came across some beautiful boats (SL62, Akhir 22, Alalunga 65 - and even a Canados 85!), in amazingly good conditions, which would have fitted my budget.
I ruled them out just because I didn't want to go above 60' max, and I was ideally looking for a mid 50 footer - which in fact is what I choose, eventually.
Now, the asking price for the cheapest N52 on the market is the TRIPLE of the most expensive among the previous boats - I kid you not.

 

[Bouba]

Good point, but fwiw your "for the same money" assumption actually leads to much more extreme differences, in today's market.
In my recent boat search, I came across some beautiful boats (SL62, Akhir 22, Alalunga 65 - and even a Canados 85!), in amazingly good conditions, which would have fitted my budget.
I ruled them out just because I didn't want to go above 60' max, and I was ideally looking for a mid 50 footer - which in fact is what I choose, eventually.
Now, the asking price for the cheapest N52 on the market is the TRIPLE of the most expensive among the previous boats - I kid you not.

I’ve always told the wife that the best investment you can make is in fiberglass. I’m glad to see that there is proof that I’m right

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I’ve always told the wife that the best investment you can make is in fiberglass. I’m glad to see that there is proof that I’m right

Yeah right. She seems far too sensible to fall for that one

 

[Bouba]

Yeah right. She seems far too sensible to fall for that one

That’s why I always resort to begging

 

[TwoHooter]

......Mind you, Fleming fails to answer many questions I ask claiming they've 'lost the records.'....

Sorry to hear that. FWIW Nordhavn are still as good as they ever were, always willing to answer questions about their old boats. I may have mentioned previously that when we had a query about our rudder Jeff Leishman fished out the construction drawing and I had it in 48 hours, free of charge. At the moment I'm buying deck fittings for a few minor things and a modification, they are being very helpful. One of the reasons I chose Nordhavn is the combination of ongoing factory support and the thriving owners group. Ask a question at any hour of the day or night, and there will usually be an answer within a few hours, often from the other side of the world.

......Meanwhile, I'll ask ABT if fitting larger fins requires a change to any of the control parameters.....

Brian George might be able to help with that, otherwise I have a direct contact at ABT (all Nordie owners do, ABT make a point of being accessible to us). Send me a PM if you need this.

Michael
N4052 Coracle, Southwold Harbour

 

[Nautical]

Hi T, I haven't read any posts from yourself for a while, I hope all is well at your end.

Just one comment on your sentence above: I'm not sure that the logical conclusion of what you are saying is that Nordies etc. are objectively "worth" more than P boats. Price of everything and value of nothing springs to mind.
If for any given size I can buy some of the best P boats for less than half of what I should fork out for a half decent SD boat, that's simply due to a market distortion rather than a real difference in VFM, surely?

Ref. boaters who are interested in the "sod it its blowing 6's and 7's but who cares we're off anyway" approach, well, I'm not saying that there aren't any, but I for one have yet to meet them.
I mean, as you know I made a 3 full days winter passage with an ORY 70' some years ago, and we did find some rough stuff along the route - also at night.
Would I have been equally happy to do that with a P boat? 'Course not.
But, was that my idea (or also the idea of anyone else onboard, mind!) of boating for pleasure? No way.
There's a difference between enduring a cruise and enjoying it... :ambivalence:

HI P, yes been travelling and working flat out last couple of years , going great guns (well our end of the market anyway).

Re P V's custom SD , I guess that's why I said "for med boating" , A P boat does pretty much everything you want , your never that far from anywhere and the majority of Med boaters are more about weekending and a couple of weeks flitting from one port or stop over to another.

Out in the big bad Atlantic , southern Ocean or far northern climes its a different story . If your going to be cruising our there perhaps hundreds of miles from anywhere you better be sure you are self sufficient for days and weeks at a time. You want the heaviest tackle you can fit , masses of chain and over sized anchors , redundancy on everything major that can go pop ,. loads of food storage , freezers, fridges , big galley, stand up engine room with lots of space to work (you can be changing a lot of stuff on the fly) a workshop of possible , space for bikes, a big tender and a big ass crane , probably a PWC , bikes, dive gear , compressor , miles of warp and a hull that can take rafting up against manky old trawlers and stone walls etc .

If your going to be on something that is a bit fragile and you want to wait around for the best conditions most of the time in places like the Western sea board, Atlantic coast , Southern ocean et al you'll spend half the time tied up in the dock going no where . LRMY owners that really use their boats take the rough with the smooth , they are used to pounding along for days at a time , its part of the adventure and achievement of being self reliant and doing 1000's nm a season and I guess that's the difference between the average med boater and a die hard we're off and see you in a year types. Nothing against either camp, you just chose which boating you prefer.

We just had one of our 800 series sail Alaska down the western sea board , South America , Southern Ocean, rounding Cape horn and back up the other side and home to Fort Lauderdale . Experienced pretty much every sea condition you can imagine from Ice Bergs , towering seas , to days of fog and days of sustained winds in excess of 40 knots to flat calm. 3500 hours running and bar a few minor breakages nothing serious and all home safe and sound . Just the trip through Alaska they were banging into logs at night goodo and a grazed a few submerged ice bergs at the other end .

On price , well I would argue there is a reason there is such a difference between a 15 year old Nordhavn or ORY and a production P boat , quality of engineering and just the sheer monumental build . There are Nordy's around 20 years that have gone round the world several times and still going strong and another 15 years of life left in them. Your average P boat is looking rather bedraggled and frayed around the edges after about 4000 hours of use . Many are basically scrap at that point.

But again if you only racking up a few hundred hours a year then not a problem, production P boats offer a lot of bang for buck and in the end its owners choice what they want to do , fair weather May to September and its all about the sea , sun and relaxation or we're off on an adventure and see you next year sometime.

When you in places like this 400 miles from the nearest fishing village you don't want to be relying one set of anything, you want double and triple redundancy built in as standard .

 

[MapisM]

Imagine from Ice Bergs , towering seas , to days of fog and days of sustained winds in excess of 40 knots to flat calm. 3500 hours running and bar a few minor breakages nothing serious and all home safe and sound . Just the trip through Alaska they were banging into logs at night goodo and a grazed a few submerged ice bergs at the other end

ROTFL, is that supposed to sound attractive?
Almost 150 full days (i.e. meant as 24 hours each) spent cruising in conditions which are boring at best and scary at worst?
I normally spend just as much time boating every summer, enjoying in great company some of the world's best spots/climate/food within a few hours (if not minutes, at P speed) from my home port...

Mind, I couldn't be more far from pretending that I'm right and those folks are wrong - it's very obvious that we are firmly in an "each to their own" camp.
But when I said that I've yet to meet any boater (really) interested to go boating no matter what, I meant including some Nordhavh and ORY owners.

Nothing wrong in using these boats for summer Med cruising or for crossing from FL to Bahamas, of course.
But that brings us back to VFM.: does it make sense to spend double or triple for a boat whose capabilities are irrelevant for your cruising habits - and are actually more limited, if and when you wish to go anywhere faster...?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

That’s why I always resort to begging

Me too. A bit of grovelling goes a long way in a marriage

 

[Nautical]

ROTFL, is that supposed to sound attractive?
Almost 150 full days (i.e. meant as 24 hours each) spent cruising in conditions which are boring at best and scary at worst?
I normally spend just as much time boating every summer, enjoying in great company some of the world's best spots/climate/food within a few hours (if not minutes, at P speed) from my home port...

Mind, I couldn't be more far from pretending that I'm right and those folks are wrong - it's very obvious that we are firmly in an "each to their own" camp.
But when I said that I've yet to meet any boater (really) interested to go boating no matter what, I meant including some Nordhavh and ORY owners.

Nothing wrong in using these boats for summer Med cruising or for crossing from FL to Bahamas, of course.
But that brings us back to VFM.: does it make sense to spend double or triple for a boat whose capabilities are irrelevant for your cruising habits - and are actually more limited, if and when you wish to go anywhere faster...?

Well I guess it all depends what you want to do, and I doubt you'll find many boaters around the med that are in anyway half interested in the whole adventure / explorer thing. Go take a walk around the docks in Alaska, the North West, Maine, even around Fort Lauderdale or western seaboard EU and ask those boaters do they want a fast boat but mostly fair weather or slower but get you anywhere you want and the percentages will be different , still a lot of P boats but a much higher smattering of Nordhavn, Fleming, ORY, GB , Offshore, Marlow and many others.

Again the Med is its own little microcosm and mostly market specific hence the proliferation of P boat builders who dominate that market globally all within that small territory. One example of how people boat differently around the world is the common seasonal boating many US boaters do . They summer up North around Portand, Maine, Boston, Newport etc and then head south for the winter to FL, Bahamas and beyond , a 1000nm - 1300nm trip each way and out in open ocean conditions and you always get a beating somewhere along the way. In general they don't want to be in and out of ports refuelling , they want to point north or south and just go. Hand them a 60' planning boat and say 'there you go' they'll laugh at you.... "that's about as much use as a chocolate fire guard". Similarly in more northern climes you find a lot more SD boats or small much tougher boats , if you have to wait all the time for a weather window your season is about 8 weeks tops .

And then there is the emotive part of it too, some people just love fettling and tinkering with their pride and joy and in the main tend to be more "salty" types, a proper SD is a much easier kettle of fish to work on and make your own tweaks and if your buying new you can customise the hell out of it to your own requirements . Add also that some people are just traditionalists through and through and just like the whole "proper trawler" look that doesn't date, you can own that thing 30 years and its hard to tell new from old whereas most P boats are pretty old school ten years down the line , your always going to be riding around in the "old model" . I mean I am all for design and all but looking at some of the latest offerings you gotta be thinking ..."what the hell ? " , I can think of a few 10 years from now you'll be sniggered at for owning one of those Heath Robinson design efforts which of course means the ass drops out of the price pretty smartish.

 

[Piers]

According to jfm your stabilisers are powered by a single double acting hydraulic cylinder, which are not handed, i.e. they are identical units port and stbd. In a double acting cylinder the piston rod occupies part of the bore of the cylinder, but only on the retract side. This means the cylinder will have less power on that side, but will move faster. It is unbalanced. If they handed the units then the imbalance on one side would have been matched by a counterbalance on the other side, but they don't it seems.

They could still balance them with controls such as flow and pressure control valves. If they don't do that then it will mean they have to size the cylinders and pumps to be slightly oversized and for response rates to be slightly different port compared to starboard. Not a disaster, probably not noticeable I'll bet, just not so elegant, but more reliable than in having extra controls.

Handing would seem best, but probably not done to save what is likely to be only a little cost.

I've been in touch with Brian George, the ABT guru at Golden Arrow (UK Distributors) and he advises, "Zing has a point to some degree. However all his concerns are taken care of with the use of the Servo Valve Assembly 31908 and its controlling software. When a TRAC kit leaves the factory the Servo Box and its 190 parameters are 90% pre-programmed for the ordering yacht as they know the cylinder area ratios for extend/retract etc etc. We finish off the 10% of parameters during commissioning and can ‘play’ with the pre-programmed gains if need be. Also if everything was handed Port or Stbd, imagine the cost hike as you would have to produce two parts instead of one. And you could guarantee when you needed a Stbd Cylinder the only one left in stock would be a Port one."

 

[NBs]

I think most modern Diesels have spray jets under the pistons along with oil journals in the crank .
I fact the oil is used to cool too ,via a cooler anything to shift heat - nothing new there or unique.
Indeed most high performance petrols ( high rpm ) sports stuff like Porches and esp Ferrari extensively use the oil to cool as well as the traditional lubrication .

Do you have oil temp gauges ?
I have and it drops at low rpm .I Also crucially have EGT,s and that drops too .
I try to keep the EGT north of 500 degrees and oil temp in the 90-100 zone .

Without oil temp gauges and EGT —- how do you know low rpm extended runs are NOT harming ?

Tony Athens article is about overload, - a good read btw and relevant for those running about with dirty props + added kg,s ,or basically wrong ( too much pitch ) prop for the boat testers when new re speed think new FL Targa 63 GTO - just nudging over 30knots — 31. something @ Cannes .

How ever long periods @ LOW rpm brings a different set of problems
Apologies for the size ,but study this study carefully .

Diesels runing underloaded for long periods have shorter lifespans.

Here it is again from my post # 141 ^^^

https://daim.idi.ntnu.no/masteroppgaver/011/11083/masteroppgave.pdf

Hi, Thanks for your expert reply. I can believe this is a problem for many other machines, as you knowingly warned. you have many good point diesel engine and low rmp/loads.

I therefore decided to ask Cummins US directly. And so the exchange of letters went.
"Hi,

I have a Cummins 5.9 qsb marine engine 2009 and it reaches max rmp 3065 which is perfect my Nordic Tug 37.

I have read a lot of conflicting opinions on the engine to run at low rmp a long time, because the machine may damage the carbon and etc. Some say it's ok to run this type engine at low rmp if the coolant remains in the correct slot.

The time i run my engine is most often 850-1300 rpm since the boat is most economical in this rmp area and temperature is ok. Cummins runs fine and does not smoke any, exhaust pipe mouth environment does not show any black carbon.

What is the manufacturer's view of low load low rmp almost always, whether it is ok or damaging the engine?

It would be great to have an expert answer, all the web instead of rumors."

And Cummins write:
"This is fine for our engines. It is not suggested to Idle (650-750rpm) for long periods. Generally speaking, you can idle for about 20 minutes or so at this range and be okay. If you plan to idle longer than 20 minutes or so it is suggested that you ramp up your RPM to about 800-1000. Working the engine under a light load/rpm is fine. This is not uncommon for some our engines (like Generators which normally work at 1800 RPM or less) and will not cause any undue harm.
Thank you for contacting Cummins."

Cummins has manufactured these engines for millions (basic machine) so I believe they have the best overall picture of engine operation and any problems and low rmp / load does not seem to be a problem if rmp +800 long periods.

Regards
NBs

 

[TwoHooter]

Add also that some people are just traditionalists through and through and just like the whole "proper trawler" look that doesn't date

Interesting point - that certainly applies to me but also I have been amazed how many people want to come and look at our little 40' Nordhavn wherever we go. They usually tell me that the reason is because "it looks like a proper boat". I wouldn't say it's a good reason for owning one, some people wouldn't like the attention, but it's a fact that in every harbour and marina someone comes up and takes an interest in the boat in a way which is usually reserved for vintage craft. And the people who take an interest are usually interesting people themselves. I've had some fascinating conversations. "Trawlers" are relatively rare in UK waters so I assume the same thing applies to the other "trawler" brands as well.

 

[Nautical]

Interesting point - that certainly applies to me but also I have been amazed how many people want to come and look at our little 40' Nordhavn wherever we go. They usually tell me that the reason is because "it looks like a proper boat". I wouldn't say it's a good reason for owning one, some people wouldn't like the attention, but it's a fact that in every harbour and marina someone comes up and takes an interest in the boat in a way which is usually reserved for vintage craft. And the people who take an interest are usually interesting people themselves. I've had some fascinating conversations. "Trawlers" are relatively rare in UK waters so I assume the same thing applies to the other "trawler" brands as well.

I would say your pretty spot on. From my own experience , you could sail into Monaco or anywhere on a Pershing 115 Turbine on full screech and not have the attention of say one of the bigger Nordhavn's or ORY's . Its always the same format , you berth up and within a few minutes there are people standing at the dock asking questions, who , where , when etc which actually can be a bit of a pain but nice all the same . I recently took an 80 ORY into Malta and by the time we left I think I had every skipper on that dock on board having a rummage , mostly commenting "Wish my owner bought one of these , would love to be captain on this" ...... proper crew space and mess/crew galley , easy to work on engines , big decks, proper sized crane and tender etc and never having to worry about being caught in a blow.

But, caveat that again for med boating and you want to boogie everywhere in a hurry, wrong tool for the job , you want a P boat .