flares

[Daydream believer]

About 4 years ago a lifeboat was trying to find me at night in heavy weather and asked me to light a flare as they could not see me in the waves. I do not think that an electronic device would have been much use. Most of the time both boats were in wave troughs but the glare of the flare would be far easier to see.

 

[Champagne Murphy]

Have you asked them why?

I sent the last survey from 2017, it could only find 3 very minor issues and one was some OOD flares.
As to that surveyor, the least said the better.

 

[Old Harry]

So is there any rule/law that forces us to carry flares? And are those rules/laws different on the Continent?

The French have rules dependent on distance offshore ( i think) i have been known to be wrong, but not often :smile-new:

 

[chubby]

At midnight on the expiry day, do the flare suddenly become a hazard? I think not. As soon as non pyro flares are recognised by insurance company the better

yes if a few days out of date so equivalent to flares a few months up to one year past
date and certainly if stranded with no other food!

 

[Graham376]

So is there any rule/law that forces us to carry flares? And are those rules/laws different on the Continent?

Mandatory in Portugal, including foreign flagged boats here >6 months. Lots of other safety equipment requirements as well.

 

[nortada]

Mandatory in Portugal, including foreign flagged boats here >6 months. Lots of other safety equipment requirements as well.

Unfortunately, in Portugal, getting replacement flares is not straight forward.

 

[Champagne Murphy]

Checked the stock today. Yes, I do (did) have OOD flares which I kept immediately after the survey as they were only a couple of months over but at the same time I bought a couple of parachute flares and a hand held smoke.
So now all I have to do is get rid of the old ones!

 

[nortada]

Please see my White Flares #18.

 

[Resolution]

If you are referring to the Duncan Wells incident (2006), my understanding is that the flare involved was in-date but faulty. (But perhaps you were alluding to something different.)

Many years ago I fired off two out of date red parachute flaresfrom my house, mainly to get experience in using them. Both landed still burning, one on my neighbour's wooden roof and one on my greenhouse. Never again!
We did also try several hand helds and this provided useful experience in things like the heat (wear a leather glove) and the shower of hot sparks (keep away from the life raft).
A later incident in the garden of a well known Forumite was very sobering. Some old yachtie friends were working their way through a pile of OOD flares for fun. One red parachute flare (held correctly) blew off DOWNWARDS instead of upwards. Very close miss of his Crown Jewels! Never again.

 

[Ohlin Karcher]

So two things from your tale there, Resolution.
Parachute flares can set fire to sheds, so make sure they land at sea (but ice, tundra, desert woukd seen safe as well).
Don't have EITHER end pointing at anything, let alone the crown jewels!

 

[capnsensible]

Unfortunately, in Portugal, getting replacement flares is not straight forward.

Take yerself and boat to Ayamonte. :encouragement:

Ayamar Efectos Navales. Might need to order. Pleasant marina in a nice little town too!

 

[Graham376]

Take yerself and boat to Ayamonte. :encouragement:

Ayamar Efectos Navales. Might need to order. Pleasant marina in a nice little town too!

John (Ayamar) told us he has stopped supplying them, said something about license problems. Available over the counter at Isla Christina chandlers.

 

[capnsensible]

John (Ayamar) told us he has stopped supplying them, said something about license problems. Available over the counter at Isla Christina chandlers.

Ah, top tip. I'll be there in a couple of weeks. will nip over and see him. :encouragement:

 

[nortada]

Take yerself and boat to Ayamonte. :encouragement:

Ayamar Efectos Navales. Might need to order. Pleasant marina in a nice little town too!

Agree, got a family house in Ayamonte.

 

[LittleSister]

Please see my White Flares

You should see my tie-dye flares!

 

[LittleSister]

DSC distress of course, plus PLB's and EPIRB's but the latter 2 aren't very likely to get a quick response.( I asked Falmouth MRCC and they said an hour before launching a lifeboat/helo, due to corroboration being needed, database searching etc. )
In what way are flares 'dangerous', compared to cooking at sea for example?
'Untrained persons'? You need to pull a handle and point the flare.
More training is needed to use a VHF or indeed, cook a meal at sea.
Everyone knows what a flare looks like, there's no doubt a vessel needs help. That is very much not the case with winking red LED's, torches etc.
Smoke and dye are very conspicuous in daylight, and from the air.

+1

I sent the last survey from 2017, it could only find 3 very minor issues and one was some OOD flares.

Ah, so the insurer's requirement was implement all recommendations of the surveyor (including repalce OOD flares), not something specific in their terms and conditions?

So now all I have to do is get rid of the old ones!

Not long until Nov 5th!

Many years ago I fired off two out of date red parachute flaresfrom my house, mainly to get experience in using them. Both landed still burning, one on my neighbour's wooden roof and one on my greenhouse. Never again!
We did also try several hand helds and this provided useful experience in things like the heat (wear a leather glove) and the shower of hot sparks (keep away from the life raft).
A later incident in the garden of a well known Forumite was very sobering. Some old yachtie friends were working their way through a pile of OOD flares for fun. One red parachute flare (held correctly) blew off DOWNWARDS instead of upwards. Very close miss of his Crown Jewels! Never again.

I've let off quite a number of out of date flares, some over 15 years old.

All worked. I didn't time them, but all burned for a decent period. The old reds were rather pale - somewhat pink. One hand-held didn't seem to have burnt all the way down (and I certainly wasn't going to peer down the end of it to check). I threw it onto a bonfire (nothing and no-one else around) from a good distance away, and ducked. Nothing noticeable happened (but it was a big fire).

I once let off a parachute flare, and it came down in a wood, rather than in the adjacent open ground as I was expecting. The wood didn't burn down, I'm pleased to report, but I now only fire hand-helds.

I definitely agree that one needs to watch out for the sparks and dripping burning remains. Hold over the downwind side of the boat if you're ever letting one off afloat.

Leather gauntlet or similar almost essential. (I keep one aboard in the container with the flares).

When letting them off on land, on most occasions I have worn, in addition to gauntlets, boating or motorcycling over-trousers and jacket, and a stout hat and visor, in case of anything going awry.

I'm glad I have some experience in using them, as I feel much more confident about the prospect of having to use one afloat (though hopefully won't ever have to).

It has also brought home the variety of different firing mechanisms, and the severe difficulty of reading/understanding the instruction text and diagrams in poor light. Would be even worse if you were in a panic.

Flares are potentially hazardous, and need to be treated with care and respect. That doesn't mean they should be avoided at all costs.

 

[Zing]

So is there any rule/law that forces us to carry flares? And are those rules/laws different on the Continent?

Yes. From memory, so check the details. A Red Flag yacht of class XII or above (14m) needs a flare kit as specified by the MCA in an MGN.

 

[Zing]

Found it:
https://assets.publishing.service.g...loads/attachment_data/file/460848/MGN_538.pdf

 

[chanelyacht]

DSC distress of course, plus PLB's and EPIRB's but the latter 2 aren't very likely to get a quick response.( I asked Falmouth MRCC and they said an hour before launching a lifeboat/helo, due to corroboration being needed, database searching etc. )

Depends on the initial information - and don't forget you have the time between the first satellite pass detection, which may not have a true position, the download to the coordination centre (Holland) and then the passing of information to UKMCC.

There's more chance of a delay if your device isn't registered, but we've had SAR assets tasked within minutes of a good position report sometimes.

Broadly, yes, an hour is about right, but can also be longer if the first pass info is rubbish.

 

[Ohlin Karcher]

Depends on the initial information - and don't forget you have the time between the first satellite pass detection, which may not have a true position, the download to the coordination centre (Holland) and then the passing of information to UKMCC.

There's more chance of a delay if your device isn't registered, but we've had SAR assets tasked within minutes of a good position report sometimes.

Broadly, yes, an hour is about right, but can also be longer if the first pass info is rubbish.

Thanks for the info