Fishing boats near Gunfleet Sand

[shanemax]

In a wildly different fishery in the Southern Ocean, a vessel that is not transmitting AIS and which is detected by other means (e.g. satellite SAR) is assumed to be fishing illegally. Given that all the waters mentioned here so far are monitored 24/7/365 by radar, I'd suggest that a fisher who turned their AIS off should be subject to the same suspicion!

Who is going to Police every small fishing boat. The powers that be are too tied up with looking after those poor unfortunate people in inflatables down at Dover. The coast guard need to make them a hot drink and sandwiches as soon as possible, so where are they going to get the man power to chase these unlit, cowboy, drug shipping, part time farm workers who call themselves fisherman

 

[Juan Twothree]

Who is going to Police every small fishing boat. The powers that be are too tied up with looking after those poor unfortunate people in inflatables down at Dover. The coast guard need to make them a hot drink and sandwiches as soon as possible, so where are they going to get the man power to chase these unlit, cowboy, drug shipping, part time farm workers who call themselves fisherman

I know you're being tongue in cheek, but even so you don't seem to know much about the role of the coastguard.

 

[Bouba]

Who is going to Police every small fishing boat. The powers that be are too tied up with looking after those poor unfortunate people in inflatables down at Dover. The coast guard need to make them a hot drink and sandwiches as soon as possible, so where are they going to get the man power to chase these unlit, cowboy, drug shipping, part time farm workers who call themselves fisherman

I don’t necessarily think that the authorities will do something...but if enough warnings about a particular fisherman are received then maybe...or at the very least if there is, heaven forbid, an incident...the investigators will have some background from which to make a judgment

 

[Malish]

Who knows the thinking of the authorities, but I'm sure that boarding a vessel at night is something they like to practice

 

[shanemax]

I know you're being tongue in cheek, but even so you don't seem to know much about the role of the coastguard.

Educate me. I thought their job was to make sure ships stayed in lanes ie
English Channel. I thought they kept a listening watch for distress calls and I know they would be interest in potential collisions because when the Orwell Lady nearly hit me at night due to a steering failure, they were more than interested. This event happened over 5 years ago, but please tell me more

 

[Juan Twothree]

Educate me. I thought their job was to make sure ships stayed in lanes ie
English Channel. I thought they kept a listening watch for distress calls and I know they would be interest in potential collisions because when the Orwell Lady nearly hit me at night due to a steering failure, they were more than interested. This event happened over 5 years ago, but please tell me more

All the above is correct, but the coastguard definitely aren't:

"too tied up with looking after those poor unfortunate people in inflatables down at Dover. The coast guard need to make them a hot drink and sandwiches as soon as possible, so where are they going to get the man power....".

 

[Poecheng]

All the above is correct, but the coastguard definitely aren't:

"too tied up with looking after those poor unfortunate people in inflatables down at Dover. The coast guard need to make them a hot drink and sandwiches as soon as possible, so where are they going to get the man power....".

Whilst you are on here, can I ask.......
Down in/on passage to the Solent the last two weeks and actually heard the Coastguard a lot (unlike our quiet East Coast).
When dealing with developing incidents and when seeking help from other potential vessels, the position was given only in lat/long with no other indication of where that actually was in 'real life' It is quite a faff when under passage to accurately record the information and then plot it only to find it is miles away. Why can it not be given together with an approximate location so the listener knows whether it is relevant to them? I think it would help even if an accuracy warning was given - it is a 'starter for ten'

It was very good, however, to hear the CG ask them (once they had asked about what life saving equipment etc they had) about whether they were members of rescue/repair organisations (ie Surestart) and then seek local vessels to help rather than calling out the LB, which seemed to be very much a last resort. There was one LB call we heard where Ramsgate went to a boat taking on water and it sounded like they had better hurry up !

 

[johnalison]

Before GPS or Decca it was normal to give one's position in bearing and distance from a fixed point. Nowadays people will happily give their position to several decimal places without any indication as to which side of the North Sea it is. Even a vague statement such as 'just south of the Cork' would be of some use. I think it is just something that people need to think about when teaching.

 

[dolabriform]

Before GPS or Decca it was normal to give one's position in bearing and distance from a fixed point. Nowadays people will happily give their position to several decimal places without any indication as to which side of the North Sea it is. Even a vague statement such as 'just south of the Cork' would be of some use. I think it is just something that people need to think about when teaching.

We always teach to give a physical reference alongside the lay and long, for precisely that reason!

Though I agree that a lot of people think lay and long is the best, but it’s a rush to get to a notepad and write the info down.

The coastguard being split all over don’t have much local knowledge anymore unfortunately

 

[johnalison]

We always teach to give a physical reference alongside the lay and long, for precisely that reason!

Though I agree that a lot of people think lay and long is the best, but it’s a rush to get to a notepad and write the info down.

The coastguard being split all over don’t have much local knowledge anymore unfortunately

Yes. Some of the pan pan and maydays are comic shows in themselves when the CG totally miss the point.

 

[Juan Twothree]

When dealing with developing incidents and when seeking help from other potential vessels, the position was given only in lat/long with no other indication of where that actually was in 'real life' It is quite a faff when under passage to accurately record the information and then plot it only to find it is miles away. Why can it not be given together with an approximate location so the listener knows whether it is relevant to them? I think it would help even if an accuracy warning was given - it is a 'starter for ten'

Yup, absolutely agree. It's a tad annoying trying to write the lat and long on a kneepad in the wet, only to then find that it's right next to a bouy.


We've been on about this to the CG for a while, and to be fair they do seem to have improved of late. The lat and long is now often followed with a bearing and distance from a known object.

 

[steve yates]

If that is indeed a verbatim quote (and I have no reason to suspect it isn't) then there is no compulsion to actually use the AIS, merely to have one fitted...
Are fishermen perhaps so suspicious of anyone 'poaching' on their favoured patch that they don't use AIS simply so their competitors don't know where they are or what they're doing?

Finding fish is a skill, some are much better at it than others, and its a sad fact of life there are always folk happy to coast along on someone elses efforts. It happens a lot that some boats will just home in on others ais when it looks like they are trawling.

 

[shanemax]

We always teach to give a physical reference alongside the lay and long, for precisely that reason!

Though I agree that a lot of people think lay and long is the best, but it’s a rush to get to a notepad and write the info down.

The coastguard being split all over don’t have much local knowledge anymore unfortunately

You do not need to give the last two digits as a reference at sea. Perhaps if you are mountain climbing or crossing a jungle then perhaps they are needed.
51.56.790 or 51.56.7 are they same at sea due to the visibility. If you say what about a storm you will be moving at several knots so your position will be out of date within seconds.

 

[dunedin]

You do not need to give the last two digits as a reference at sea. Perhaps if you are mountain climbing or crossing a jungle then perhaps they are needed.
51.56.790 or 51.56.7 are they same at sea due to the visibility. If you say what about a storm you will be moving at several knots so your position will be out of date within seconds.

But nowadays a lot of people don’t use Lat/Long on a regular basis, so probably won’t know if 51 56.7N is anywhere near them. I know exactly where I am at present- and navigated here safely avoiding all the rocks, shallows etc. But I don’t know my Lat or Long. Yes of course I can look at a chart plotter screen and see it instantly. But if something comes on the radio with just Lat and Long doesn’t help me, and by the time reach a plotter screen may have forgotten all the string of digits anyway.
(Particularly as up here can be on exactly the same Latitude, and just a few minutes of Longitude different, yet be a day’s sail to get there if the other side of a large peninsula or island.)

But if somebody says “2nm NW of Gigha” I would instantly know if I can assist today - or perhaps tomorrow.

 

[johnalison]

But nowadays a lot of people don’t use Lat/Long on a regular basis, so probably won’t know if 51 56.7N is anywhere near them. I know exactly where I am at present- and navigated here safely avoiding all the rocks, shallows etc. But I don’t know my Lat or Long. Yes of course I can look at a chart plotter screen and see it instantly. But if something comes on the radio with just Lat and Long doesn’t help me, and by the time reach a plotter screen may have forgotten all the string of digits anyway.
(Particularly as up here can be on exactly the same Latitude, and just a few minutes of Longitude different, yet be a day’s sail to get there if the other side of a large peninsula or island.)

But if somebody says “2nm NW of Gigha” I would instantly know if I can assist today - or perhaps tomorrow.

I, for one, have certainly lost my sense of lat and long. It must be twenty years since I used my parallel rulers on the chart and looked for the lat and long scales. I know that I am east of Greenwich but that’s about it. As for lat, I have never quite got to 60, so is suppose we must be 57-ish but I really don’t remember.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I, for one, have certainly lost my sense of lat and long. It must be twenty years since I used my parallel rulers on the chart and looked for the lat and long scales. I know that I am east of Greenwich but that’s about it. As for lat, I have never quite got to 60, so is suppose we must be 57-ish but I really don’t remember.

Sitting in Ipswich Haven Marina 52° 02.8932' N 001° 09.5946' E

 

[shanemax]

Awe

But nowadays a lot of people don’t use Lat/Long on a regular basis, so probably won’t know if 51 56.7N is anywhere near them. I know exactly where I am at present- and navigated here safely avoiding all the rocks, shallows etc. But I don’t know my Lat or Long. Yes of course I can look at a chart plotter screen and see it instantly. But if something comes on the radio with just Lat and Long doesn’t help me, and by the time reach a plotter screen may have forgotten all the string of digits anyway.
(Particularly as up here can be on exactly the same Latitude, and just a few minutes of Longitude different, yet be a day’s sail to get there if the other side of a large peninsula or island.)

But if somebody says “2nm NW of Gigha” I would instantly know if I can assist today - or perhaps tomorrow.

I couldn't agree with you more. To say I am one mile to the left of Clacton pier viewing the pier from seaward and about two miles off the coast gives everybody a picture. I even think the local life boat would prefer that type of description but I dare say they can feed in the lat/long and their boat will take them there automatically. Lat/long is good if you are miles out or in fog or heavy rain when visibility is low. And thats another reason to keep red and white hand held flares on board. So you stand out when there is more than one boat around or in bad weather.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I, for one, have certainly lost my sense of lat and long. It must be twenty years since I used my parallel rulers on the chart and looked for the lat and long scales. I know that I am east of Greenwich but that’s about it. As for lat, I have never quite got to 60, so is suppose we must be 57-ish but I really don’t remember.

A bit closer than east of Eden then.

 

[Juan Twothree]

To say I am one mile to the left of Clacton pier viewing the pier from seaward and about two miles off the coast gives everybody a picture. I even think the local life boat would prefer that type of description but I dare say they can feed in the lat/long and their boat will take them there automatically.

We don't mind either format - either a lat and long or a bearing/distance.

The only thing we can't deal with easily is OS grid numbers, or What Three Words. That involves getting our phones out (not easy on an ILB), or the CG ops room converting them for us.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

We don't mind either format - either a lat and long or a bearing/distance.

The only thing we can't deal with easily is OS grid numbers, or What Three Words. That involves getting our phones out (not easy on an ILB), or the CG ops room converting them for us.

This is a VERY pedantic point, but technically OS references are undefined offshore. The original OS grid was defined in terms of a survey network, and so it was only defined with respect to survey points, and it's a bit tricky erecting a survey monument at sea . It's a quibble - the maths of the map projection works fine offshore, so you can give an OS reference - but it's actually a misuse of the OS grid.

Incidentally, I don't know if it's still the case, but the OS used to claim copyright on the OS Grid, so publishing a map with an OS grid required permission from them. As the OS has Crown copyright, the copyright doesn't expire.