First timer - heavy displacement boat

[Poignard]

Bristol Pilot cutter.... what a fantastic looking craft! How many does it take to sail her when all the rag is up?

From what I remember reading about these beautiful vessels, once the pilot(s) had been transferred to the incoming ship, the cutter would be sailed home by one man.

Previous thread: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2520627

 

[westernman]

Bristol Pilot cutter.... what a fantastic looking craft! How many does it take to sail her when all the rag is up?

She can be sailed (as in tacked, gybed etc) by one person easily.

Raising and lowering sail can be done by one person in normal conditions.
However, you really need two when lowering or furling the jib or when lowering the main in a gale.

The staysail (compared to the jib) is easy to hand single handed.

 

[Poignard]

Alexander T is for sale - http://www.bristolcutter.com

I can't think of anything I'd rather spend my money on!

Memo to self: buy lottery ticket

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

I can't think of anything I'd rather spend my money on!

Memo to self: buy lottery ticket

And if I win first I'll share it with you!

 

[Poignard]

And if I win first I'll share it with you!

The boat or the lottery win?

 

[alant]

Your missing the real point, which is not to get into situation in the first place. To do so is poor planning and seamanship. But if - force majeur - it somehow happens then if you know your boat, there are ways of resolving it.

As to using a bit of jib to spin a boat, no marina operator ever complained when I've done it. I'm not talking about a full genoa, just a few feet unrolled and sheeted home hard, or even aback. The bow will pay off downwind anyway, all you're doing is helping speed up the process.

Believe it or not, there are many full keeled boats in marinae, and they don't make a habit of damaging their neighbours. Their owners just might be a bit above average when it comes to boat handling though.

Just checked a few Solent marinas, regarding "full keeled boats".

Your "many", consists of a maximum of about 5%!

 

[Kilter]

Just checked a few Solent marinas, regarding "full keeled boats".

Your "many", consists of a maximum of about 5%!

and your point is? I see no dichotomy with TK's remark

there are many full keeled boats in marinae, and they don't make a habit of damaging their neighbours. Their owners just might be a bit above average when it comes to boat handling though.

 

[alant]

and your point is? I see no dichotomy with TK's remark

"many"!

 

[Kilter]

"many"!

5% of the boats in the Solent is "many"

 

[Tranona]

5% of the boats in the Solent is "many"

Just to be pedantic (wot on here?) I did a similar count in our club marina with similar results. The point is that long keel boats of the old type are a minority interest which will only shrink. Although most of them will contimue to exist, there are (almost) no new ones being built, nor have there been in any numbers for 30 years so the 5% (which is probably a bit of an underestimate of total population including non marina based) will only get smaller as just about every new boat coming on the market is fin keel and mostly spade rudder.

So, while their supporters will no doubt continue to try and convince the majority (95%?) of the virtues of their boats they will become an even tinier minority and even less relevant to the current yachting scene.

 

[alant]

5% of the boats in the Solent is "many"

5% of boats in marinas, not in the Solent, not the same thing!

The "many" was an indication of the popularity of long keels & their preponderance in marina berths, which is not the case.

 

[alant]

Just to be pedantic (wot on here?) I did a similar count in our club marina with similar results. The point is that long keel boats of the old type are a minority interest which will only shrink. Although most of them will contimue to exist, there are (almost) no new ones being built, nor have there been in any numbers for 30 years so the 5% (which is probably a bit of an underestimate of total population including non marina based) will only get smaller as just about every new boat coming on the market is fin keel and mostly spade rudder.

So, while their supporters will no doubt continue to try and convince the majority (95%?) of the virtues of their boats they will become an even tinier minority and even less relevant to the current yachting scene.

Exactly my point!

 

[SailBobSquarePants]

5% of boats in marinas, not in the Solent, not the same thing!

The "many" was an indication of the popularity of long keels & their preponderance in marina berths, which is not the case.

Absolutely silly statistic. For one, the value of most long keelers, and their maneuverability or perceived lack thereof, means that a great percentage of them are to be found on swinging moorings, not in a marina berths - especially in the Solent. In 5-8 years of ownership, the cost of Solent marina fees would outstrip the entire purchase price of an average condition Nic 32. But cruise up and down channels, and there are great numbers of long-keeled boats on swinging moorings - remember that many owners of these boats are way up the seniority lists for conservation moorings and such, having had them for a while.

My only real input to the OP is this - does your SWMBO/partner/first mate share your enthusiasm to sail enough to be out with you in a F7 or greater? Would the two of you even leave the dock knowing it was going to blow like that? If the answer is a probable NO, then get a AWB - because the long keeler will have a very restricted usable wind range. The only exception is if you/she just LOVE the look of an older boat, and are happy to motor a bit.

If you and she are BOTH happy out in an F7 and above, then as a Nic 32 owner I would not be one to talk you out of getting a long keeler. We did fit a bow thruster to ours, because the strain of the learning process greatly upset my SWMBO a few times. But they are so cheap now, and speed isn't a great concern, so they remain an option...

 

[doug748]

The cost of a new boat of the older style now seems to vary between expensive and astronomical.
Ironic that sailors of the old school are either seriously minted or skint. I rather like that , the ancient alliance of old money and none at all.

 

[Tranona]

The cost of a new boat of the older style now seems to vary between expensive and astronomical.
Ironic that sailors of the old school are either seriously minted or skint. I rather like that , the ancient alliance of old money and none at all.

Suspect that the relatively small amount of money required to enter that exclusive club of long keel enthusiasts is one of its major attractions. The bonus is that you can claim your boat can do things that others' can't (and probably don't want to).

Something about making a virtue out of a necessity!

 

[SailBobSquarePants]

Suspect that the relatively small amount of money required to enter that exclusive club of long keel enthusiasts is one of its major attractions. The bonus is that you can claim your boat can do things that others' can't (and probably don't want to).

Something about making a virtue out of a necessity!

How about if we simply say they LOOK better? Both inside, covered in the finest joinery with loads of real teak and mohaghoney, and out, with curved clipper bows and long, sleek lines that just look right?

In the same way that a Jag E-type just looks right - but can be beaten in any statistical challenge by a modern Honda Accord.

And that is the real comparison...you'd either rather own a classic because it's a classic, or own a modern Accord because it's engine will always start and the boot is bigger, and it's faster.

 

[Tranona]

How about if we simply say they LOOK better? Both inside, covered in the finest joinery with loads of real teak and mohaghoney, and out, with curved clipper bows and long, sleek lines that just look right?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! Why buy a boat just to look at? when you can look at any other boat and enjoy the sight without owning it.

Seriously though, this quality and joinery bit is overdone. Many of the older boats were very basic inside and some modern boats are absolutely exquisite inside - sort of compensating for the plastic exterior.

Lets face it the real attraction is that they are "cheap" When people were paying real money for new boats, they could not switch to more modern designs quickly enough. Old style long keel grp boats disappeared from the market in a matter of a a few years - killed off by high costs and the availability of boats that better met buyers' needs.

Those who buy them now are indeed fortunate they can buy a boat that was unobtainable for most people when they were new for a price that would not buy a new boat now half the size (figuratively speaking).

 

[Kasabian]

Flippin' heck, I never realised my enquiry would generate such a lively debate - all very enlightening - many thanks!!!

 

[KellysEye]

>Would the two of you even leave the dock knowing it was going to blow like that? If the answer is a probable NO, then get a AWB - because the long keeler will have a very restricted usable wind range.

We have a long keeler and will leave/arrive on a dock in any strength wind. It's simply knowing how to use the warps, particularly when leaving using a spring to hold the boat while running the engine in gear for a few minutes to get water flow over the rudder and thus stop the prop walk.

Sailing in a force 7 or greater is no problem. As I've mentioned before unlike AWBs long keelers don't surf, don't broach and don't turn up to wind in gusts. Thus it's safe and comfortable sailing. You should try it.

 

[angelsson]

Exactly my point!

One of Americas leading quality builders, Island Packet has long keels.