First time out this year and engine dies....

[ningram]

We have just taken a week off work for annual maintenance, hauled out the boat (97 Binliner Cierra 2355, Mercruiser 5.7 V8) scraped off the barnacles (Arrrrr) anti fouled the hull and leg (removed the dead eel from the bellows) replaced the sacrificial anodes and returned it to the berth. Down to the boat today and all seems well, we follow our friends out down the river for an afternoon of RnR. 3 miles down the river and the tub dies. Mmm have I put diesel in the tank, have I turned the fuel on, has it thrown a rod, snapped the belt.... not any of them. Anyway we were towed back to our berth, initial findings are no spark, as we can see petrol being thrown down the carb body.... I'm thinking dizzy, dizzy cap, rotor arm, but more likely the coil...? Sorry not a good description and having to think back to before all engines had ECUs / black boxes. Plan is to try and beg / steal / borrow a good old fashioned timing / strobe light and see if we have a spark, assuming we don't what does the panel think please? When the engine died it went without any warning. The engine turns over OK, no sign of any water ingress, no obvious signs of damage. I can remember thinking to myself just before it conked out how expensive it is to run, but who cares it's soooo reliable D'oh.
Anyway sorry for rant / long post it has been a long hard week which has not ended up the way we had hoped.
Grateful for any pointers / tests / replies of any sort really.

We still love our Bayliner despite this hiccup by the way

Thanks and Regards

Nick

 

[oGaryo]

Nick, have you tried checkiing for a spark against the crackcase instead of finding a strobe and also had the dizzy cap off to check if it's something simple like the rotor arm failing? If you take the centre lead off the engine side of the the dizzy you should hear a cracking noise indicating you're getting a good pulse from that side of the system. cheers Gary

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Do the 5.7's have an oil pressure sensor down at the bottom of the engine? The 4.3's do - I had one years ago, and it died in exactly the way you describe, and eventually we traced it to a bad connection to this oil pressure sensor. (On the 4.3 this oil pressure sensor prevents the coil from generating a spark until there is some oil pressure). Worth a try?

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[ningram]

Thanks Gents, on my way out now to buy a cheap plug tester, will check the rotor arm / dizzy leads etc as well. New Coil is 59 bucks in the states, wonder how much it will be in the UK...
Jimmy I didn't know about the oil pressure sensor, I'll check that out as well.

Cheers

Nick

 

[Tidnock]

If it cut out without notice, in an instance, no dying or fading, its probably primary ignition, i.e. not plugs or plug leads, 8 do not fail at once, you would expect fuel to give a bit of notice too. You need to check if you have a spark, you dont need a strobe light to do this, furthermore, the strobe light will not give an indication of the quality/intensity of the spark, use a spark plug, if your worried about getting a belt, cable tie the plug to a good earth, if you have no spark you need to start eliminating the various ignition units, also check the engine kill lanyard circuit.

 

[jimd10]

What got my attention was the fact you said it was your first time out this season.
Last season on my first trip same thing happened (bayliner 2556 ciera 5.7 omc),idled ok and warmed up ,no problem as we made our way out of marina and up the river ,only when i powered up she died dead,no spluttering coughing just cut out and would not start.
Eventually mechanic traced it to water in the fuel from the lay up over winter.
Might be worth a look.

 

[[2068]]

>findings are no spark
Why would water in the fuel cause no spark

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

>findings are no spark
Why would water in the fuel cause no spark

I think the OP only concluded no spark because he could see fuel in the carb, rather than having positively established by testing that there was no spark.

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[Cliveshep]

No spark on distributor engines could be:- points gap wrong or points fouled, cap cracked or tracking, moisture in cap or lead from coil, failed condensor. Another one could be rotor arm rotating because the moulded key has snapped off - try twisting it to make sure it is firmly attached. Check for "tracking" inside cap or on rotor arm, check LT wires to points not shorting, check you've actually GOT LT (12 volt presumably) (LT - low tension, i.e battery voltage assuming it's not one of those transistorised set-ups that reduces battery voltage to LT down of course)

Cheap and cheerful, if you can't get HT, get a s/h old Jag coil from breakers, clean/gap or replace points, replace primary HT lead (from coil to cap), replace condensor. A coil is pretty much a coil, so I wouldn't necessarily go to the States for an expensive new one if yours is duff. When you finally do get a spark, check it is blue, if yellow, replace condensor.

 

[Tidnock]

No spark on distributor engines could be:- points gap wrong or points fouled, cap cracked or tracking, moisture in cap or lead from coil, failed condensor. Another one could be rotor arm rotating because the moulded key has snapped off - try twisting it to make sure it is firmly attached. Check for "tracking" inside cap or on rotor arm, check LT wires to points not shorting, check you've actually GOT LT (12 volt presumably) (LT - low tension, i.e battery voltage assuming it's not one of those transistorised set-ups that reduces battery voltage to LT down of course)

Cheap and cheerful, if you can't get HT, get a s/h old Jag coil from breakers, clean/gap or replace points, replace primary HT lead (from coil to cap), replace condensor. A coil is pretty much a coil, so I wouldn't necessarily go to the States for an expensive new one if yours is duff. When you finally do get a spark, check it is blue, if yellow, replace condensor.

some 12v systems have a 12v coil, some 12v systems have a 9v coil.
The 9v coils runs from a 12v system, 12 volts are supplied to a ballast resistor this resistor reduces the 12v to 9v, when the starter motor is engaged the resistor is taken out of the circuit. The reason for having this type of system is to account for voltage drop when the starter motor is engaged, so if you ever have an engine that will fire and run whilst the starter is engaged and stops when the key returns to ignition, its the ballast resistor that has failed. so not all coils are the same

 

[AndieMac]

I'm having trouble getting past the 'dead eel in the bellows' bit......................How?

 

[ningram]

I'm having trouble getting past the 'dead eel in the bellows' bit......................How?

Bellows had come off at the outer end and this chap had moved in.

Thanks for all the replies, will be having a proper look this coming weekend, will let you know what I find.

Cheers

Nick

 

[davedpc]

When you do get the engine running again watch it in the dark. You will be supprised to see where your precious sparks are going. Even better if you can to this when under full load.

 

[Cliveshep]

Quote: "some 12v systems have a 12v coil, some 12v systems have a 9v coil.
The 9v coils runs from a 12v system, 12 volts are supplied to a ballast resistor this resistor reduces the 12v to 9v, when the starter motor is engaged the resistor is taken out of the circuit. The reason for having this type of system is to account for voltage drop when the starter motor is engaged, so if you ever have an engine that will fire and run whilst the starter is engaged and stops when the key returns to ignition, its the ballast resistor that has failed. so not all coils are the same "

Yup, made the point, it's a question of finding a similar s/h unit. Good point about the ballast though, the OP if necessary should ask for this along with his 9v coil IF that is what he has got.

 

[jimd10]

>findings are no spark
Why would water in the fuel cause no spark

I believe the man said "initial findings" after seeing fuel being delivered to the carb.
I also had fuel entering the carb but it was not an electrical problem in my case.

 

[[2068]]

okay: thanks for the clarification.
...will be interesting to see what the problem turns out to be.

 

[tinkicker0]

You mention a dead eel in the bellows which had come off? If its a Mercruiser setup, the only bellows that can come off without sinking the boat is the exhaust bellows.

You sure you dont have a whole family of eels down the exhaust?

 

[ningram]

OK so it wasn't the Coil, and I now have a brand new spare sitting in the engine bay. Going to try dizzy cap / rotor arm / HT lead from cap to coil next. Have also been told to have a look at the shift interupt switch - just need to find out what it is and where it is... and will re-read this thread for the earlier suggestions.

Cheers

Nick

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Have also been told to have a look at the shift interupt switch - just need to find out what it is and where it is

Isn't that the microswitch located at the engine end of the throttle cables? (My distant recollection is that this retards the ignition while you engage gear, but I'm ready to be corrected...).

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[rafiki_]

Look for the simple things first.

Have you definitely got no spark? If you have a spare plug, whip off a plug lead and short the plug against a bolt or something iron and clean on the block. Use pliers to hold the plug (with plastic coated handle) will prevent you being the earth.

If no spark, check the ht and lt leads.

Check the rotor arm is spinning. If not, the dizzie might have popped up from its clamp. I had a jensen Healey do this on me in London. Cost me a tow to Coventry, before I had a proper look and fixed it in 5 mins!

Then check the kill switch and other options.

Then call in an expert, and tell him you have done the easy bits before he spend £50 doing them.

Best of luck.