First Sailboat Purchase Looming - Friendly Advice Appreciated!

ylop said:
I don’t understand why the owner isn’t paying to get these issues sorted out, and at the very least sticking the running rigging through the washing machine. Always be wary of anyone selling who says “that will only cost about £800 to fix”. In my experience it translates to “the replacement part will be £800+vat”! Similarly brokers must have unusual relationships because a “couple of thousand” actually means three (+vat!). If a job is easy and relatively cheap to do then it makes no sense not to have done it already whilst it is sitting on the hard.

You’ll be surprised - all your friends will now be big boat sailing friends! Most of my friends have never sailed at all or perhaps sailed a dinghy on a Neilson holiday but will happily join us and get involved - the trick is not to scare them.
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I think sometimes people just get fed up with boats/never ending costs and want them gone at any price or ill health/old age/death prevents them from sorting the boat before sale. I recently viewed a Bavaria 33 in Scotland which took my fancy, there was a brand new oven/hob sitting in a box in the saloon to be fitted and a selection of used chartplotters sitting on the dining table to replace the faulty chartplotter at the helm. I did wonder why someone wouldn't just do these relatively small and cheap jobs before listing then after speaking to the broker, realised the chap had suffered ill health and just wanted the boat gone. It was a 2006 model listed at slightly more than the boat OP viewed, it would have made a great boat for whoever bought it shortly after with a bit of work.

Edit - when I think back to my recent boat search, nearly every boat I viewed from 20 year old to 5 year old showed signs of neglect and the owner giving up on it at some stage
 
reyes said:
Cheers John!

Couldn't agree more.

Really good point. My words yesterday were "I'd like something for now (i.e. my current skill level being low) but where I have some room to grow so that I don't need to upgrade later". It's finding that balance where I think "this is the size I want now and it caters for what I want later". Just so long as later isn't an ocean crossing on a 50ft boat otherwise I'm going about this the wrong way!

Absolutely. I agree I should not base my choice heavily on that! The alternative to that is I don't have any big boat sailing friends (though I'm sure a membership at where it'll be berthed will sort that!)

For now, I'm going to have a cup of tea (so English to our foreign friends, I know!) and go over:
🤞
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Looks like a good list of boats. Always good to look at a range of boats to “get your eye in” in terms of options and alternatives.
(Though personally not sure I would include the Legend)
 
John_Silver said:
Not sure what the 2005 era Dufour 34’s go for…..almost ordered one of those, back in the day….Sharp performers / capable cruisers….
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Well, for the first quote, here's one Dufour: Dufour 35 Classic 1999 Used Boat for Sale in Plymouth -- I've reason to believe this could come down a bit. It's a teak deck -- how off putting is that to you guys?

ylop said:
I don’t understand why the owner isn’t paying to get these issues sorted out, and at the very least sticking the running rigging through the washing machine. Always be wary of anyone selling who says “that will only cost about £800 to fix”. In my experience it translates to “the replacement part will be £800+vat”! Similarly brokers must have unusual relationships because a “couple of thousand” actually means three (+vat!). If a job is easy and relatively cheap to do then it makes no sense not to have done it already whilst it is sitting on the hard.

You’ll be surprised - all your friends will now be big boat sailing friends! Most of my friends have never sailed at all or perhaps sailed a dinghy on a Neilson holiday but will happily join us and get involved - the trick is not to scare them.
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"all your friends will now be big boat sailing friends!" Haha, well I'll look forward to improved social life that enables more sailing in that case! It didn't even occur to me that the nonchalant "that will only cost about £800 to fix" perhaps doesn't include VAT. Who's to say £800 was underestimating either. Regardless, it's officially off the choice list now!
 
reyes said:
Well, for the first quote, here's one Dufour: Dufour 35 Classic 1999 Used Boat for Sale in Plymouth -- I've reason to believe this could come down a bit. It's a teak deck -- how off putting is that to you guys?
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Run a mile from an old teak deck. That one looks in bad shape. Sometimes the teak has been replaced with a modern synthetic material and that can be okay, usually if it’s attached with adhesive only and no screws through the deck. If in doubt stick to GRP deck.
 
reyes said:
Well, for the first quote, here's one Dufour: Dufour 35 Classic 1999 Used Boat for Sale in Plymouth -- I've reason to believe this could come down a bit. It's a teak deck -- how off putting is that to you guys?
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Ask 2 posters and be prepared for at least 3 opinions.

My 2013 boat has teak decks and I love it.
TBH, the king plank lifted but it was replaced and re-sealed under warranty.
 
reyes said:
Cheers John!

Couldn't agree more.

Really good point. My words yesterday were "I'd like something for now (i.e. my current skill level being low) but where I have some room to grow so that I don't need to upgrade later". It's finding that balance where I think "this is the size I want now and it caters for what I want later". Just so long as later isn't an ocean crossing on a 50ft boat otherwise I'm going about this the wrong way!

Absolutely. I agree I should not base my choice heavily on that! The alternative to that is I don't have any big boat sailing friends (though I'm sure a membership at where it'll be berthed will sort that!)

For now, I'm going to have a cup of tea (so English to our foreign friends, I know!) and go over:
🤞
Click to expand...
Don't dismiss the Beneteau. If that passes a survey and can be brought up to scratch for under £50k it would be a good buy. Don't worry about the shallow keel as you really won't notice it in "normal" use. I had the Bavaria equivalent 37 (very similar to the 35 on your list - a boat I know well, but think it is now sold) and it was only hard on the wind in heavy conditions that performance dropped off. Upside with that size/type of boat is that they are really easy to live with and you do notice the additional space over most boats in the 32-34' size. An exception is the Bavaria 34 - the one at Clarke and Carter. This was a best seller when new because it really was as big as a typical 36' at the time. That would be top of my list after the Bene. The Hanse is a lovely sailing boat but it is from a previous generation of Scandinavian cruiser racers. You will notice the difference immediately with 4' less on the waterline and over a foot less beam compared with the Bavarias and the Dufour. As always it depends on your priorities. Hanse replaced the 331 with more modern designs as they found even at the low prices of the older ones demand was very limited for boats of the older style.
 
reyes said:
Interesting! Any particular reason to educate me on them?
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I haven't clicked through to the detailed adverts so not looked at the specific boats.. But Bavaria, Hanse and Dufour are well known European builders and generally decent boats when new - albeit each model has different strengths and weaknesses. They will also be easy to sell on if change mind or want to trade up to a bigger boat (especially Bavaria & Hanse).
Don't know that specific Hunter Legend model but many/most were designed in the USA and had a reputation for being more optimised for cabin space and in port living, perhaps less robust for sailing - but that is a general perception, and may be wrong (certainly some of the older / bigger Legends have done plenty of ocean crossings). But hence why I said "personally" it wouldn't be on my list, but I may be wrong.
 
dunedin said:
I haven't clicked through to the detailed adverts so not looked at the specific boats.. But Bavaria, Hanse and Dufour are well known European builders and generally decent boats when new - albeit each model has different strengths and weaknesses. They will also be easy to sell on if change mind or want to trade up to a bigger boat (especially Bavaria & Hanse).
Don't know that specific Hunter Legend model but many/most were designed in the USA and had a reputation for being more optimised for cabin space and in port living, perhaps less robust for sailing - but that is a general perception, and may be wrong (certainly some of the older / bigger Legends have done plenty of ocean crossings). But hence why I said "personally" it wouldn't be on my list, but I may be wrong.
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My old man had a Legend for a while, the previous generation to that one, the 336. I actually really quite liked that boat, however I also sailed the latter generations, including the 33, and was not as impressed. The great thing about the 336 was it set a huge amount of sail area, so was a surprisingly good sailor, we used to keep X332s honest, but this was a bit neutered in the latter generations.

The upholstery in that 33 would be enough to rule it out to me... Looks like a 1990s cheesy nightclub!
 
On Hunter Legends in general... I'd listened to "The Internet" when looking at boats a couple of years ago and ignored a locally available 340. Having travelled the length and breadth of the country looking at a variety of boats I asceded to the admiralty decision to view the Legend and as I said to the broker.. "I'm trying really hard to dislike this boat but struggling". 2 years later I'm still delighted with her after the pre purchase survey that showed nothing more serious than an out of date fire extinguisher. Might not be for you but go look at all the boats available and make your own choices. Best time ever was doing the looking. NB - I'm also of the opinion dont delay.. better to be sailing dreaming of the next boat than sat in the kitchen.
 
reyes said:
Cheers John!

Couldn't agree more.

Really good point. My words yesterday were "I'd like something for now (i.e. my current skill level being low) but where I have some room to grow so that I don't need to upgrade later". It's finding that balance where I think "this is the size I want now and it caters for what I want later". Just so long as later isn't an ocean crossing on a 50ft boat otherwise I'm going about this the wrong way!

Absolutely. I agree I should not base my choice heavily on that! The alternative to that is I don't have any big boat sailing friends (though I'm sure a membership at where it'll be berthed will sort that!)

For now, I'm going to have a cup of tea (so English to our foreign friends, I know!) and go over:
🤞
Click to expand...

Small world

The Legend is/was owned by a member of the forum

I believe the Hanse is under offer from an OP in a thread in the East Coast forum
 
If you have broadened your search and now are including the Bav 34 listed as an owner of one from new in 2001 which we sold in in 2014 having sailed round Solent ,across to Normandy ,Brittany and Channel Islands a few thoughts but others will as is inevitable on this forum disagree:
1 try to find one with a 29hp engine as opposed 19hp;
2 check that the heads has a shower pump /exit if creatures comforts appeal plus the calorifier to heat water naturally ;
3 personally I prefer not to have in mast reefing -others disagree but you get a large main slightly on a fully battened main;
4 check the saildrive seal has been replaced within say last 7 years;
5check it has electric windlass -they were an extra and if not chosen the platform in the bow locker to support was removed so it might be pricey to retrofit a windlass and platform -clearly if you don’t anchor much this might not be an issue if young strong crew etc;
6 hopefully the sails have been replaced by now but the original elvstroms were poorly made;
7 as noted previously the berth cushions will need replacing -clearly memory foam is a cheaper substitute as illustrated in one of those pictured;
8the standard fit Bav cookers are rubbish if still in situ - maybe cooking isn’t essential though;
9if diesel heating not fitted check it has cut outs in berths bases to retrofit if you plan to retrofit -
10 have the electrics checked -as originally built it wasn’t possible to isolate the shorepower from the batteries for example(save for unplugging the shorepower🤣) so the risk exists of over charging the batteries if plugged in etc;
11 leaks are possible through the stanchions in the bow cabin creeping down behind the vinyl panels;
Advantages are many made, the gear is standard and simple to maintain etc. you should have no problem selling on . The are light so easy to push around in marina berth which when you go larger becomes more of an issue and they drive backwards brilliantly so backing into a fairway in an unknown marina is a real plus. Clearly I don’t know how well the others behave but I’m sure they will sail better than a legend but maybe the Hanse are more sporty and it has the self tacker which eases single handed helming.
 
Good summary of the 34. The one with Clarke and Carter has everything except heating. Replacement cooker, in mast with recent replacement mainsail. At £38k well worth a look.
 
The debate on inmast versus stackpack main is rather like whether you like Marmite - at 35.8ft which is roughly length of a Bav34 a fit sailor can handle dropping main and the boom isn’t too high (no need for the child step to do up stackpack) but others favour the convenience and accept the minor risk of the main jamming etc . I know others advocate the in mast and it’s common on charter boats but we manage a 12.8m boat now with stackpack . It does make a tad more work to reef but it’s not a common issue at least in south to need to reef particularly if headsail is slightly reduced from standard Bav elvstrom size which are perhaps too large for uk sailing . 9we have power winches which helps) I guess like many things an inmast depends on age etc and maintenance but I have always disliked on charter Bene and suchlike Moorings/Sunsail fleet boats. So if you accept in mast is slower and points lower I believe then there’s nothing wrong with it until the main jams of course.
 
reyes said:
Not sure how I feel about in mast... Only ever heard negatives about it?
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Yes, mostly from people who have little or no direct experience of owning and using the system. For cruising particularly shorthanded the advantages outweigh the perceived disadvantages. Ease of handling and ability to match sail area to conditions mean passage times are comparable to what can be achieved with slab reefing on the kind of boat you are looking at. I have had 2 boats with in mast, first a 2001 Bavaria 37 which we bought new for chartering in the Med. It also had a shallow keel as we wanted the option of using the French canal system. In "normal" use it was fine, but it did suffer in heavy weather, partly because of the poor basic sails and partly because of all the top hamper of the bimini. Sailed it back to the UK and a later owner took it back to the Med. Replaced by a new 2015 Bavaria 33 again in mast and shallow keel (we sail from Poole). The boat performed well and was easy to handle single handed, but the original sail went baggy very quickly and once replaced with one made of a more stable cloth (Vectran) performance improved significantly. Never had any of the jamming problems you hear about perhaps because I read the instructions on how to use the system!

I agree with much of what ashtead says particularly in relation to the Bav 34 like the one on your list. That seems to have a fairly recent main and I hope the sailmaker did a good job and used a better cloth than the basic. If the boat is as good as it looks on paper it would meet your needs very well. It is no fluke that the 34 was Bavaria's best selling model (it was my first choice in 2001 but there was an 18 month waiting list and I need a boat that year - plus the 37 had a deal that made it almost the same price!). It really hit the sweet spot in terms of overall performance and accommodation. As noted the original rig was optimised for light airs in the Med and the standard 135% genoa is too big. Many UK based boats will have replaced the genoa now and a 115% sail is a common mod.
 
One of our neighbours has a Bav 34, they have had a smaller genny made. Full hoist still, obviously, probably around 115%. The original was apparently a total pain in the ass. It seems to sail sweetly enough, though they just cruise her. They’re never the last to arrive for lunch.
 
reyes said:
Not sure how I feel about in mast... Only ever heard negatives about it?
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As Tranona says, usually from people who don't know how to use them. Almost every boat I've chartered in the Med or Caribbean had in mast furling. It is so easy to use (two bits of string, "in" and "out"). RTFM before use and you won't get any jamming. The boat we bought a couple of years ago (Ben O38) came with it and we saw that as a positive for short handing.

The main problem seems to be people habitually release the main and the vang to drop the sail on a traditional slab reefed type but this is the worst thing you can do for in mast furling. I ensure there is a little wind on the port side (slot is on starboard side of mast) so the sail will furl nice and tight, apply vang so the boom is almost at 90 degrees to the mast and furl in. Whilst furling, watch the luff very carefully and unfurl a bit and adjust boom if it starts to crinkle up as it goes into the mast.

Not had any issues at all.

https://zsparsuk.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/in-mast-furling-customer-experience.pdf
 
Last edited:
ridgy said:
You have good thoughts.
In mast on 34 feet...does it come with a Zimmer frame as well.
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Nothing to do with whether you need a Zimmer frame or not. The benefits are clear and available to able bodied people as well.

Worth talking to actual owners - most, if not all would never go back to slab reefing. Or if they have, like me (because of the boat I wanted) miss the simplicity and versatility and curse all the masses of string and "special" tricks needed to make slab reefing work properly.
 
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