First boat ....

[taf]

OK - I don't think I can resist the temptation any more ! I am now seriously considering buying my first boat. A friend has suggested Vancouvers, and I have found a couple of 27 footers on the market. Is this a good first boat ? I will want to potter around the south coast initially, then perhaps down to France, and maybe further eventually. I want to sleep 2 in comfort, and 4 without being squashed. I want a solid boat and a reliable engine (I'm no mechanic !), and a deck that is easy to work on. I may need to sail it single-handed occasionally. So ... is the Vancouver a good boat for me ? Are there any pitfalls with this boat ? Or have you any other suggestions of suitable boats ? (looking to pay up to £30k max)

 

[ParaHandy]

Good choice. I looked long and hard at them...
Here some info on early history of the 27 (slightly different to the 28) which is snipped from Rusalka Mist and which is worth reading:-

In the 1960s, a couple who lived in Vancouver, Canada, decided to emigrate to New Zealand. Their plan was to send their belongings on by carrier and follow in their own yacht, taking their time for the Pacific crossing. They commissioned an excellent naval architect and yacht designer named Robert Harris to design and build them the perfect yacht for this cruise.

Their journey over, this whole episode would have been forgotten except that Robert Harris later published an article about yacht design versus intended purpose, or some such topic, and included a drawing of this boat to illustrate his point, '...the perfect yacht for a couple on an extended ocean cruise...'.

This article was seen by Stuart Dandridge of Pheon Yachts in Sussex, England. He thought this boat looked like an excellent candidate for GRP mass production (the original had been traditionally built in wood). He contacted Robert Harris, secured the rights to the design, and soon GRP replicas were on the market as Vancouver 27s. These were heavily built to withstand all that the elements could throw at them and soon found a good niche-market among the new breed of long-distance cruising folk. Robert Harris had drawn a stretched version for small families or pairs of couples so the Vancouver 32 joined the family.

In 1984 Kevin Seymour, an architect also from Sussex, bought a Vancouver 27 called Collavoce. Like any owner, he found details about the boat which he felt could be improved. Suddenly he realised that many of the main problems could be solved by a small redesign to the moulds for the main hull and deck components.

He brought his architectural design skills, and his knowledge of boats, to the problem and proposed to Pheon that

if the transom was raked back so that a foot (30 cm) was added to the length and
if the deck moulding was lifted by 2in (50 mm) with regard to the hull
then a much more practical craft would result.
His proposals were accepted on the basis that he should purchase the first boat from the modified moulds. This was all agreed and Islander, the first Vancouver 28, was built. About this time, Pheon Yachts Ltd ran into problems and the Vancouver moulds were acquired by Northshore Yachts Ltd of Itchenor, Chichester, West Sussex, PO20 7AY. They continued production and Rusalka Mist was number 15 out of the mould in 1988.

 

[tome]

Have you considered a Stag 28? These were designed by Peter Milne and around 40 were built with a choice of fixed or lifting keel. They are very well finished, had 5 berths (double in saloon, 2 in separate focsle cabin, and quarter berth), a roomy heads/shower, superb navigation station and well equipped galley. The standard of joinery is as good as any Swedish yacht, and there is no fibreglass to be seen below. Standard engine is the Volvo MD7A which I've found very reliable. I just returned from a perfect weekend with 4 of us on board without anyone feeling squashed.

We've just accepted an offer on ours (sorry) but I see them advertised occasionaly for around £16 - 22k. I bought her to get my wife interested in sailing and we've cruised France, Channel Islands and West Country in comfort and safety plus plenty of trips around the Solent. I can handle her easily on my own and one of them has done at least 4 single-handed Atlantic crossings. SWMBO has been impressed enough to do her Day Skipper as a result, and we now hope to take delivery of our 37ft replacement boat in a couple of weeks time.

 

[AndrewB]

Excellent yacht ... but not my choice ...

... for what you want. The Vancouver 27 is a classic minature blue-water yacht, best suited for at most two people prepared for fairly serious cruising. Tough as old boots, but sacrificies accomodation, speed and convenience to this end. Its one advantage to you is that it is an extremely well-mannered single-hander in open water. But for a first-time south coast cruiser, taking four in reasonable comfort, with occasional summer cross-channel trips, you will be paying a premium for a type of yacht you don't really want yet. For the same money there are are great many more suitable yachts. I would suggest looking in the 29-31 foot range. A Moody 29 or 31 is from the same period, just two of many possibilities that would fall within your budget.

There are some good tips on chosing a first boat on the Sailing in Depth site at http://www.sailingindepth.com/cruising/default.asp?m=displayarticle&id=924. By the time you want to sail further afield, you will have different ideas, so get a boat that will be easy to sell.

 

[Mike_02]

Early Vancouvers only sleep 3 so not a good choice for comfort inside. Look at moody 29's or sadler 32's....but the main thing is go and lok inside as many boats as you can..make sure you can live with the inside ..then go look at what desing hull you want.

 

[JeremyF]

Try and track down Alex_Rogers who posts here sometimes. He has a brand new Vancouver 27. He is a very experienced sailor who wanted a pocket ocean cruiser that he can sail on his own, as well as with one or two others. Its a heavy yacht, beautifully made, but small below - 3 berths I think.

Is this what you want?

As a family starter boat I would have thought a Westerley Konsort or Moody 28/31 might be a better compromise.

Jeremy Flynn

 

[Mirelle]

Good boat, here are some alternatives:

You can start with such a boat - as many people have, indeed, done.

It sounds as if you have clearly decided what you wnat to do, so go for it.

I don't know how much sailing you have already done, of course, so if this sounds patronising I can only apologise, but this sort of boat can be a little intimidating due to the relatively heavy gear, and you may find yourself motoring into and out of harbours and anchorages which you could perfectly well sail into and out of (which is very much more fun!) and thus never gaining self confidence.

That is the only downside, and if you have already done enough sailing to be confident in handling your own boat, then there is nothing to worry about.

As has been said, the accomodation is a bit tight, by the standards of modern Frogboats, but not by older standards.

If this is the style of boat that you like, you may also like to look at some similar designs as alternatives, easily available in the secondhand market, which are broadly similar, before getting the cheque book out:

1. Twister. 28ft. Mostly GRP, some wood, some GRP with wood coachroof. Less room inside but really sparkling performance and great fun to sail, very capable indeed in heavy weather. Ken has one.

2. Rustler 31. Basically a big sister of the above. really nice boat, but maybe too big. Not too common.

2A. Northney 34. Rustler with counter. Downright rare, but very pretty and all the good points of the Rustler and Twister.

3. Vertue. 25ft. The all time classic small offshore cruiser. The Mark 2 is GRP, Mark 1 is wood. Limited room below but will take you anywhere - more slowly than a Twister! A Vertue despite her short length is a lot of boat, heavier than a Twister.

4. Contessa 26. Smaller, and a good deal cheaper, than any of the above but in the same family of small long keeled capable offshore boats - Nigel has one. Again, fun to sail and easy to handle, thus good for building confidence.

5. Rival 31. The grandmother of the series. Maybe a bit big.
An old design, therefore probably available cheap

6. Nicholson 32. Another all time classic, perhaps on the big side; also an old design.

7. Wauquiez Centurion. 32 ft. Despite being French built this is an English (Holman and Pye) design. Very good boat.

Having said all that, the only real advice is "look at as many as you can".

As to the engine...all the above boats will have had a diesel installed when new and some will be on their second engine.

Almost everything depends on the standard of installation - can you get to:
- the fuel filter?
- the cooling water pump?
- the dipstick and oil filler?
- the cooling water seacock and strainer?
- the tank for cleaning out ocasional attacks of "diesel bug"?

and are the batteries well installed?

Then of courswe there is the whole world of proper (wooden) boats, with a great many more excellent designs.... <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by mirelle on 24/07/2002 12:32 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Mike_02]

I'd try and stay away also from long keel boats. My first boat was a long keeler and whil they are great at sea they are a real pig in a tight marina....i had many a scary moment until i figured it out...not for the new or faint hearted i would say.

 

[taf]

Mmm - tight spaces in Marinas aren't my favourite things at the best of times - so I shall definitely look a bit further before taking the plunge ! I think I need to decide how far I want to venture as well ! Thanks all !

TAF.

 

[pkb]

For a first boat I would have thought that a Vancouver was less than ideal. Heavy long keeled boats can have a mind of their own when it comes to berthing and close quarter manoeuvering and whatever people say the really tense times for a beginner is getting in and out of his berth. At sea there's plenty of room to make mistakes and recover from them.

Our first boat (in 1989) was a Moody 31 with bilge keels - able to take the ground or snug in close to shore when desired - and she had a decent 28hp Volvo engine which will get you out of trouble with ease. The sail plan was simple and straightforward and easy to handle. She also sailed pretty well although prone to weather helm. Another alternative would be a Westerly Konsort, just slightly smaller but bags of space and some of the best sea berths I've seen.

Because boats such as these appeal to a broad spectrum of sailors and not just those with blue water sailing in mind there is an active second hand market which means lots of choice for you and when you want to move on lots of buyers.

And don't listen to the ill-founded prejudice which is often directed at French boats. Read some of the yachting media's reports on second hand French boats and they come out pretty well.

Good luck and good hunting.

Peter

 

[LeonF]

Sailed with someone who once owned a Vancouver. He said it was a great boat but he didn't like the motion and reckoned it was because he wasn't laden with a months supply of food, water etc, which would have given her some extra ballast and made a difference. As some of the other postings suggest, a boat that is easy to motor astern etc. would be a boon to a novice. Indeed to anyone. As I motored my Sigma 33 astern through our very narrow cut yesterday -mud on boths sides and dries completely, two veteran sailors, owners of a beautifully maintained and well travelled Twister ,cogitated on how good it was to be able to go astern in a straight line. My Sigma is a powerful racing boat but has been adapted for easy cruising and I sail her singlehanded. Take your time- it's easy to make an expensive mistake then be stuck with a boat you don't like till you find someone else gullible enough to want her.

L.A.R.Ferguson

 

[Celena]

Just got back from crusing France in our 28. Perfect boat for a cruising couple, not slow providing you invest in downwind sails. Also not that difficult to reverse because of big transom-hung rudder and large aperture in front of it. You are wecome to look at mine (same name; Hamble mooring) probably wouldn't choose it for first boat; I'd go for a cheap bilge-keeler, Jaguar 25, Centaur, just to make sure I actually liked cruising...

 

[petery]

The Vancouver 274 gives you 4 berths at the expense of a smaller galley and chart table. Northshore is currently advertising one but it may be under offer